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Old June 17, 2012, 04:54 PM   #1
new_camper
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Weimaraner

I was wondering if any of you have weimaraner and is it a breed that you would recommend to someone. The dog would be on a farm that has cattle and would have a couple hundred acres to roam on hikes, would possibly be taken camping, and would have a very large yard. Mainly would there be an issue with the dog and cattle? What is the breed temperament to other dogs and people? Are they good watch dogs?

EDIT: The dog would be around people a lot, not just left outside, and would only be out of the yard under supervision. Also I know someone will suggest a herding breed but I currently have a Border Collie and have found that she is too disruptive to the cattle, thus the move away from a herding dog. I have had a Samoyed in the past and she was great but I was looking for a dog with lower grooming maintenance

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Old June 17, 2012, 05:32 PM   #2
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We have had them for over twenty years. One is laying on my lap snoring as I sit here on the couch and type. They are my favorite breed. Very smart, thus somewhat stubborn. They need to be around people always. Not a dog to be resigned to live forgotten in a yard or kennel. Ours goes in and out a dog door and the yard is over an acre fenced. Beyond the yard is our pasture with goats, deer, turkey. She does not leave the yard without supervision. Don't let Weimars roam unsupervised. They point by instinct and ours loves to point the armadillo that lives in the yard. They will point almost anything. They will be protective, yet not vicious. Very clean dogs.Very good around children. Excellent bird dogs. Ours are family, and live in the house, sleep in our bed, sit on furniture, go on vacations with us....

Until they are beyond two years old, they can be mischevious and chew things. They become very attached to their human family and should not be passed from owner to owner. If you get one, keep it for life.

Please don't get one if it can't be around you. I believe with training they would be fine around cattle. Ours leave other animals alone when we tell her to.

Best dog breed I've ever had and I have had muts, cheasapeke bay retrievers, german shorthaired pointers, and australian cattle dogs.
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Old June 17, 2012, 11:11 PM   #3
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Weimaraners, like most sporting dogs, tend to be high energy dogs that need a lot of human interaction and a high level of training. They're not bad dogs but as was pointed out they ARE highly intelligent and as such if left to their own for long periods of time are prone to getting into trouble.

I've known of a couple of different weimaraners that actually knew how to open the fridge and ate all the food that was in the fridge, including those that were enclosed by tupperware or other like storage containers (the dogs figured out how to open or otherwise puncture the containers to get at the food).

I'm not entirely sure the weimaraner would be a good dog to have around livestock. They're natural hunters and will point at everything that enters their field but at the same time I've also heard of them being very prey driven and will also give chase to anything that runs from them too - this includes larger animals like livestock.

They are however very alert dogs and can be great early warning systems for intruders onto your property and home albeit it would have to be within the confines of a front/back yard and your home itself. I would not give this type of dog hundreds of acres to roam freely. That gives the dog too much freedom and as such it can and will most certainly get into trouble and perhaps get injured. While a weimaraner is a larger dog and very athletic too it can and would be severely injured if it encountered a pack of coyote. These and other sporting dogs should not be left unsupervised for any long length of time unless they're confined in a kennel or crate while you're gone. Even at that these dogs don't do well in such confined spaces (their high intelligence gets to them in confined spaces) so you'll have to give them plenty of chew toys while they're confined and I wouldn't leave them for too long.

These dogs are however known for their great stamina and can work (running, hunting, tracking etc) for long periods of time. A long brisk walk is only one of the things that will be required to keep this breed of dog calm and relatively inactive while indoors. They are also prone to bloat, rapid excessive growth - which can lead to joint, circulatory and other medical problems, and hip dysplasia. Be aware of this and when buying a puppy make sure to only buy from a reputable breeder who can give you a good health guarantee. Make sure you have documentation that the parents are healthy and have good temperaments too. As with sporting breeds there is a field line and a show line. The field lines tend to have higher energy levels and higher prey drive while the show lines tend to be of lower energy levels and lower prey drive. Regardless be aware of the fact that you ARE getting a hunting/sporting dog and even if it were a show line you will still have a dog with a higher energy level and higher prey drive.

If you're looking for a dog that you can have on a farm that would be good with livestock, be alright if left alone (and unsupervised) for long periods of time AND also be a good alert/guardian dog for your home I'd strongly suggest a Great Pyrenees. They make excellent livestock guardian dogs, learn their boundaries quickly and even with hundreds of acres to roam will not leave the boundaries they have been taught. They are excellent dogs for children although they can be somewhat aloof with adults. They won't be disruptive of cattle or other livestock, preferring to stay around the fringes of the herd and keeping an eye out for predators. They don't herd animals and will not make attempts to herd them, rather they just hang around waiting for possible predators and danger. The one thing about them that you might not like is that they are extremely distrustful of strangers. If you as the owner have not welcomed visitors each and every time they come onto your property the Great Pyrenees might look at them as intruders and will start to treat them as such... with shows of aggression trying to get the intruders to vacate the property until either they leave or you as the owner come to greet them and welcome them in. Then the dogs seem to have an instinctive understanding that if their leader welcomes the intruders in they are ok. Again one of those pack mentality things. When inside the home Pyrenees are for the most part sedentary. They'll prefer to lay in a spot they choose and stay there unless called or till they decide they need to move (which may not be for hours on end). They're quite accepting of children and children can play with and on them but when they are done playing with the children they will simply get up and walk away to lay down elsewhere.

In any case make sure you purchase from a reputable breeder and do your research on the breed you're going to purchase. Neither breed of dog is good for bouncing from home to home so choose wisely and make it a life long commitment.

Good luck.
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Old June 18, 2012, 12:03 AM   #4
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I hunted with one for three years. Good hunter, very aggressive. Will hunt about anything it was trained for.

Good disposition and especially good with children. Wants to be with the family and not happy left alone.

Don't know how they are with livestock.

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Old June 18, 2012, 12:14 PM   #5
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Quote:
I've known of a couple of different weimaraners that actually knew how to open the fridge and ate all the food that was in the fridge, including those that were enclosed by tupperware or other like storage containers (the dogs figured out how to open or otherwise puncture the containers to get at the food).
My ex and i had four Weimaranders at different times. If food was left out they had a feeding frenzy when we left the house. Beaugeau Hart ate a loaf of bread and a huge pot of chili while we were at the movies. Knocked them right of the counter and scoffed it up.
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Old June 18, 2012, 12:53 PM   #6
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Don't know how they are with livestock.
I'd think if a pup was brought up with livestock, it wouldn't even pay attention to Livestock once it knew they were off limits. No different than breaking a bird dog off from deer. I have had bird dogs of one kind or another all of my adult life. At one time I had a GSP and a GWP at the same time that I was raising pheasants. Neither one of them ever paid any attention to the birds behind the fence.......but out in the field, once those same birds were released, it was a different story.
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Old June 18, 2012, 05:45 PM   #7
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I had a Weimaraner, and I would absolutely recommend the breed for the conditions described. Our Weim was a blue female, a little headstrong at first but very compliant and eager to please once she decided who was the boss (me). She was a great pheasant dog for me, very close working and lots of endurance. Very loving and attentive around our first son, he would actually climb on and around her, she would put on her stoic longsuffering face when he crawled on her. I think the breed has great potential for anyone who needs a larger versatile breed and they make a great companion.
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Old June 18, 2012, 10:48 PM   #8
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You really cannot lose with a Weimaraner. My hunting companion and heavily house spoiled furry friend is one of the greatest breeds I have ever been around. Mine is a longhair Weimaraner and really has a great temperament. No problem with kids, dogs, new people, or even the mailman. Went through some behavior training and hunt training and it's been pretty smooth sailing ever since. Everyone I know wants to take my dog home and we generally have no problem finding a sitter when traveling. DO NOT get this breed if you you don't have time to spend with your dog. They are fiercely loyal but truly have some separation issues. Good luck. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1340077679.258405.jpg
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Old June 19, 2012, 12:02 AM   #9
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I understand the replies to this thread regarding how great Weimaraners are. However I have to wonder if people are letting their emotions about their personal dogs interfere with their answers.

The OP asked the following:

Quote:
The dog would be on a farm that has cattle and would have a couple hundred acres to roam on hikes, would possibly be taken camping, and would have a very large yard. Mainly would there be an issue with the dog and cattle? What is the breed temperament to other dogs and people? Are they good watch dogs?
and

Quote:
would only be out of the yard under supervision
as well as

Quote:
I was looking for a dog with lower grooming maintenance
Now Weimaraners aren't a high maintenance breed but their single coat doesn't make them ideal outdoor dogs for hiking and camping unless your tent is large enough to house the dog as well overnight. I also get the feeling that the dog would be left outside in a large yard (most likely fenced in) unsupervised for at least some time during the day. The OP was also hoping to use the dog as a good guard dog - or at least that's my take on the post. All of this says to me they're looking for a different breed of dog than a Weimaraner.

Sure weims are alert dogs and will bark if someone arrives but in the middle of the night and sleeping in your home with you this dog won't be much of a deterrent if someone is sneaking onto your property to steel from your tool shed or cattle barn. Same goes for if you have a varmint coming for a late night snack. For this task you need a dog that was bred for it.

As a dog that you'll want to use as an outdoor dog you want one that is happy and comfortable with your friends and family but isn't glued to you by the hip and won't whine if he/she can't come inside for the night. At least for me when hiking and camping my dogs sleep outside the tent. That also isn't for a weim especially if it rains or snows (especially snow...). Besides part of having a dog with your while camping is for its guarding duty. I'd definitely go with another breed for this.

All in all what the OP asked for sounded a lot like the place in their lives would be best filled by a farm/field line Great Pyrenees. Its a larger working dog that is for the most part very docile and gentle with its family unless it tires of being climbed on at which point they just go find another place to lay. Its a light sleeper and sleeps often during the day but at night its constantly on the alert. Nothing gets past a pyr when its on duty - which is almost all the time. They are diligent guardians of children and livestock and even guard adults quite well too. Fearless in the face of danger these dogs will put themselves on the line so their family and flock can flee to safety. For humans these dogs know how to put on a great fearsome display - but unless the dogs perceive a real threat they are not prone to attacking humans and really they're pretty good at getting a good read on humans. With a pyr (or better yet 2 of them) on your farm you needn't worry about varmints of either 4 legged or 2 legged kind. I know of some farmers who have multiple pyrs on their farms and coyote, wolves and other predators (including birds of prey) don't come within hundreds of yards of their property and livestock. The show line of these dogs is very high maintenance in their coats but the working line dogs are actually very low maintenance. They can be at home either in the house or in the field. I know of a pyr that would stay outside the home if she thought there was a possible threat and despite rain, snow etc. she'd stay on watch all night long. In the morning the owners would wake up to find her starting to curl up under a snow bank for a nap in the winter or ducking into her dog house in the warmer months. She was a house dog but had freedom to stay outside if she felt necessary. They're hardy dogs that will survive most every weather condition nature throws their way from heat to cold, wet to snow...

If the OP doesn't care for pyrs they can also look into other livestock guard breeds that would probably better suit what they're looking for than a weimaraner.

Now don't get me wrong, weims are great dogs in their own right but I wouldn't suggest a weim or any other sporting breed for what I thought the OP was looking for. I LOVE labs and springers. I think they're the greatest dogs in the world but I also know their limitations and where they'd fit best. This scenario is definitely NOT one I'd suggest a lab or springer and not a weim either.

Of course I also kind of got the feeling the OP had already decided on a weimaraner so perhaps this is all moot anyway.
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Old June 19, 2012, 12:35 AM   #10
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Hansam,

I don't believe the rest of us need you as an interpreter for this thread.

We all contributed based on what we know about the breed.

If you want to fill in the spaces, do so. Don't tell the rest of us that we're being emotional and not factual with our answers.

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Old June 19, 2012, 02:45 PM   #11
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Water Man,

Of course you know your breed. However how well do you know other breeds?

The other thing is if you truly know the breed why are you recommending a breed for a position it is not really that well suited for?

I talk with a LOT of dog owners - at least a few different owners every week, sometimes as many as a few a day. I also talk with a vets and have also done a lot of research (both internet and getting out to meet different dogs of different breeds) on dogs while learning to train dogs on a professional level. Being neck deep in the dog world I do come into contact on a regular basis with other people in the dog world in different specialties.

One thing that I can say is a common theme amongst almost all dog owners is that they will emphatically praise the particular breed of dog they've got and are in love with and as such will also equally emphatically say that that particular breed is the BEST breed ever - for every task out there. It sort of like they have the blinders on and don't see any other breed.

Personally I've owned over a dozen different breeds of dogs, raised them from 7 weeks on up to adulthood and some I've kept others I've sold but I've owned more different breeds of dogs than most average dog owners AND I've raised more dogs than most if not all average dog owners in their entire lifetime. When people ask me for my advice about dogs I pride myself on being able to give an educated and unbiased answer.

The question I have is how many dog owners out there could do the same? While you don't need me to interpret the OP for you can you say you honestly gave the answer you did because you knew enough about the breed and other breeds to say that this dog would be best suited for what the OP wanted and there were no other breeds that would be better suited? Or was your answer based only on what YOU saw in YOUR dog(s) and not in what you knew about the breed as a whole as well as other breeds?

You're right you don't need me to interpret the OP and I'm well within my rights to fill in the holes... which is simply what I'm doing. If you don't like what you read its your right not to consider it. Doesn't mean I can't write it especially since I didn't attack anyone nor was my post directed at anyone in particular.
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Old June 19, 2012, 03:01 PM   #12
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You may be knowledgeable about dogs, maybe, but you're failing miserably with reading comprehension.

I did not recommend the breed to the OP. I only shared my experience with one.

Take a little more time before posting. It'll do you a world of good.

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Old June 19, 2012, 03:39 PM   #13
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Well then I'd say you were failing miserably at reading comprehension too. When did I ever say you were the one getting emotional or anyone for that matter? Allowing your emotions to interfere is not the same as being emotional. If someone were to ask me about my kids I'd say they were great kids! Of course that is biased and couldn't be taken as an objective answer. I've found the same is true of dog owners.

You took my post as being pointed toward you somehow. If you weren't making a suggestion then why on earth are you taking an issue with my post? Did offend you somehow? If so why? After all you didn't make a suggestion right? Or did you but just not in so many words?

Look the fact is I simply stated that I wondered if people weren't letting their emotions for their dogs interfere with their decision to suggest a dog breed for someone who was asking if this breed were a good fit for what they wanted. If you hadn't actually done that then why are you the one who is taking issue with that comment?

Basically since you clearly stated you hadn't made a suggestion then your original problem with my post is similar to the DI vs. Piston system ARs... an argument about a problem that doesn't exist. Right?

In any case I've told the OP pretty much ALL I know about Weims so I've got nothing more to add to this thread. I'm sure that others would be happier if you pm'ed me with any other issues you may have with me or my post but after this post unless I have something that actually pertains to the OP I'll refrain from public posting.
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Old June 19, 2012, 04:31 PM   #14
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I agree with the great pyrenees suggestions. They are very good a guarding all that is theirs without overdoing it. A close friend had one that would kill any snake without flinching. It lived with about 25 barn cats that it left alone because it was taught. It covered about 160 acres which has a creek. None of the coons, armadillos, or opossums ever got near the house.

It would great you at your vehicle but as long as you were friendly it was too.
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Old June 19, 2012, 07:17 PM   #15
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Nattering away about emotions and reading comprehension doesn't really seem to me to have much to do with Weimaraners. Were I not so lazy, I'd be messing with the King Of All Keys: The Delete key.

When one sees a post which is regarded with little favor, there are two rational courses of action: Either offer a polite disagreement or ignore the dratted thing. I find myself extremely underwhelmed by snark.
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Old June 19, 2012, 09:39 PM   #16
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...and get a good German Shepherd pup and be done with it.

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Old June 19, 2012, 10:42 PM   #17
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I second that! Or an Australian Shepard, they can do everything except cook you dinner......before they eat it.
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Old June 20, 2012, 06:34 AM   #18
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Both good dogs but there's the issue of herding instinct yet. I'd go with a good German Shepherd before I get an Aussie. The Aussies are one of the smartest breeds of dogs in the world I think but they're so hard wired to herd that they will start herding without being told to do so.

The problem though with German Shepherds is that the stock of GOOD dogs of that breed in the USA are just about gone. Too much breeding for what the judges of conformity shows here in the USA and not enough based on performance have given us a very watered down dog with horrible health issues. If you get a good German Shepherd you'll have to go Germany or some other teutonic nation.

There's also the possibility of a Belgian Malinois but once again you need to start looking overseas. In those countries breeding of these breeds is done by performance and not purely by cosmetics. Of course even over there you still have to be careful and buy from a breeder that has a strict breeding program designed to advance the breed not just in looks but also in physical capabilities.

All in all in the US, I still suggest a great pyrenees - make sure to get one from the working/farm/field lines and you'll be fine.
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Old June 20, 2012, 09:42 AM   #19
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Along about 1947 I discovered the dog books of Albert Payson Terhune. He regularly blasted the AKC for what its judgement policies had done to the various types of dogs. I did some exploratory reading, and saw comparative pictures of working dogs versus show dogs.

65 years. No changes, apparently. "It don't get better with age."
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Old June 20, 2012, 12:12 PM   #20
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IMHO we're talking about a bunch of breeds that aren't ideal for a first time dog owner. OP, if that's the case I'd recommend a lab. I'd also recommend a breed specific rescue group as a potential source of finding a dog. A good rescue group can help you select a dog that will fit into your lifestyle.
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Old June 20, 2012, 12:42 PM   #21
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I have know the owners of two weini's. One better than the other, he was a handful to say the least. Beautiful dogs though.
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Old June 20, 2012, 01:11 PM   #22
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Quote:
If you get a good German Shepherd you'll have to go Germany or some other teutonic nation.
...

...This is very true and...



....West Germany to be exact... or Czechoslovakia.

East Germany has done as much to ruin as many breeds(esp. the working lines) as the U.S. and are not allowed to breed with breeders from W.Germany or Czech.
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Old June 20, 2012, 01:16 PM   #23
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Quote:
He regularly blasted the AKC for what its judgement policies had done to the various types of dogs. I did some exploratory reading, and saw comparative pictures of working dogs versus show dogs.
This is all too true of many breeds today. Here are a couple of examples:

Show line herding dogs tend to have bodies whose shapes and lines are not conducive to long hours of herding work. They are also less energetic and don't have the heart for the kind of training that is required of a good herder.

In sporting breeds there are some breeds that are more extreme than others. In Great Britain there is a breed of hunting hound that, when compared to prime examples of the same breed from 100 yrs ago, don't even look like the same breed nor are they as capable a hunter.

In labs (something I'm personally very familiar with) field labs are slenderer and tend to have longer legs than their show counterparts. They are also slenderer and longer of head and muzzle too. Energy wise the field dogs are considerably more energetic than show dogs and they are less heavily muscled with a great deal more stamina. Trainers like me would also argue that the field dogs are also smarter than show dogs as well. Between the two the field dogs are called American and the show dogs are called British.

In Springers (also one of my favorite breeds) the field lines have shorter fur, longer legs and are also slenderer of build. They are also higher energy dogs with more drive and more endurance for hunting. Their coloration is primarily white with spots of black, liver or a combination of both as well as a good deal of ticking (tiny spots of color) all over. A show dog of this breed would have a large solid blanket of color on the entire body and have little ticking if any. These dogs have much longer fur, shorter legs (generally) and are of a thicker body build. They also do not have as good of noses, are not as energetic and have much less stamina.

I could go on and on but frankly I think that conformity shows are ruining dogs all over the world. Breeders breed dogs with visual characteristics that judges have decided are the perfect visual ideal of that breed (according to THEIR opinion). These dogs are then peddled as being the ideal of the breed despite the fact that much of their actual physical performance is being bred out and sometimes the visual characteristics that are so pleasing to the show crowd actually impedes the dog in the task it was originally bred to do.

Quote:
IMHO we're talking about a bunch of breeds that aren't ideal for a first time dog owner. OP, if that's the case I'd recommend a lab. I'd also recommend a breed specific rescue group as a potential source of finding a dog. A good rescue group can help you select a dog that will fit into your lifestyle.
First off this is not a first time dog owner. The OP currently has a border collie and has owned in the past a samoyed. Neither are what I would consider "first time dogs". I don't believe that a Pyrenees is beyond the OP's capabilities as an owner. In fact a Pyrenees, when allowed to do what it was bred to do and given basic obedience training, is a VERY easy dog to own... well a working line Pyrenees anyway. Show line pyrs tend to be VERY high maintenance regarding their coats.

Labs aren't exactly easy first time dogs either unless you're talking about a show lab. Field labs are VERY energetic and VERY eager to work and hunt. They require a very experienced owner who has the time and energy to take the dog out every day to work and play for long periods of time. That alone eliminates MOST average dog owners in the country despite the lab being the most owned dog in the country.
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Old June 23, 2012, 07:35 AM   #24
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Hansam,

The info. in your posts pertaining to ruining breeds , breeding for show versus breeding for what a breed was originally designed to do is spot on and shows your knowledge of how many breeds are being ruined.

Thanks for your posts.

The best advice I can give the OP is whichever breed he chooses is to:

A) Extensively research the breed and be armed with the knowledge of what physical and mental characteristics of that particular breed are supposed to be versus what the show breeders are breading for today.

B) Research the breeder/kennel to see if the seller has a reputation of breeding for show or is interested in breeding for what the breed is intended for.

C) Armed with the above knowledge, if at all possible, see the parents of the pup to insure they meet the specific requirements you learned of that breed.

D) DON'T BE RUSHED. A breeder rushing and not spending time with you is NOT interested in anything but making a sale. A good breeder that cares for their animals wants a good match between the pup they sell and new prospective owner.

This whole process takes time but remember, you're hopefully going to have the dog for many years so the time spent up front is well worth it.

One more thing. After you've researched/picked your breed, call some of your local vets., tell them specifically what your looking for(as in a breeder not breeding for show but has an old bloodline for that specific dog that breeds for dogs original purposes) and ask them if they know of any reputable breeders.

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