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Old June 15, 2012, 08:46 PM   #1
JKilbreth
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Vaquero on a single six frame?

I can't be sure, but I think I heard someone tell me once that Ruger made their Vaquero models on a Single Six frame. Is this true?

I have small hands, and I was considering getting the Bisley Vaquero, but if I can get a smaller gun for the same or cheaper price, Who wouldn't prefer that!?

Thanks in advance!
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Old June 15, 2012, 10:50 PM   #2
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Never, old frames were "full sized"- i.e. "Ruger Only" load capable.My "Old" style Vaquero .45 Colt was too big for my hands until I switched out to slimmer grips. The new Vaqueros are built on a medimum size frame and fits my hand perfectly right out of the box. Good to about 20k psi in .45 Colt. No
.44 mag like Ruger had in the "Old" style.
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Old June 16, 2012, 04:21 AM   #3
JKilbreth
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I don't know why it never occurred to me to consider changing grips!

Thanks! I'll consider that when I make my purchase.

Now here's where I really look dumb, but I have to ask: how do you if it's a "New Vaquero" or and "Old Vaquero"? Is it inscribed on the firearm, or are there distinctive traits, or do you just have to ask?
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Old June 16, 2012, 12:38 PM   #4
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If you at a gun store, compare the size of the frame to a blawkhawk, if the frame is same as blackhawk, you have Old Vaquero. If it's slightly smaller it's a new Vaquero. In this case, size is everything. Or you compare it with any other Peacemaker clone. The old Vaquero is going to be noticebly larger in most, if not all demensions. For instance, the cylinder will be at least 1/4 inch longer on old vaquero. Or just ask the guy. The old Vaquero is obviously larger than other peacemaker clones.
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Old June 16, 2012, 05:20 PM   #5
savit260
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The "New Vaquero's" say "New Vaquero" on the frame (exception being the 44 Special) If it says just "Vaquero" and isn't a 44 Special, then it's the large frame. There is no Large Frame Vaquero in 44 Special. If it's a 44Magnum it's a large frame.

Ruger seems to like to make things a bit confusing.

There are also mid frame Blackhawks, so comparing to a Blackhawk isn't really a safe bet either.
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Old June 17, 2012, 04:01 AM   #6
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Thanks. I guess I'll restrict my shopping to the New Vaquero from now on. I'm not, however, interested in the Blackhawk model because I prefer fixed sights, personally.
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Old June 17, 2012, 08:54 AM   #7
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You will be very happy with the new Vaqueros. Tolerances are much better than the old Vaqueros. Really, they are built on .357 mag size frames so if you go with the .45 Colt you will be limited to 20k psi and around 270 to 280 grain bullets (shorter cylinder). For what you intend to use it for, a 255 grain SWC at around 950 fps will do just about anything a gun can do anyway. I have had both new and old Vaqueros and the new ones are fantastic.
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Old June 17, 2012, 10:00 AM   #8
buckhorn
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vaquero

JM, I'm not trying to start an arguement but I thought the tolerances on the old Vaquero were pretty good to start with. I own an old one in .45 colt, and it seems pretty tight despite hundreds of rounds thru it. Maybe I should consider a new one as well, only this time blued instead of polished stainless.
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Old June 17, 2012, 11:43 AM   #9
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Here is link to Handloader magazine article from Brian Pearce discussing specifics. Fantastic article and the editor's notes on the article at the beginning of the PDF are interesting as well.
http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazin...34_preview.pdf

"Over the years I have measured
the throats of dozens of older Vaqueros
and Blackhawks chambered
in .45 Colt. Virtually all guns
built in the last 15 years have
throats that measure .448 to .450
inch, with .449 inch being most
common. Combined with a groove
diameter of .452 inch, accuracy
was not up to its full potential until
the throats were opened to .452 to
.453 inch, depending on bullet
size. (This is a simple job and most
gunsmiths charge around $40 to
$50 for the work and only require
the cylinder be sent.) In measuring
the throats of the New Vaquero,
I found they measured .452 inch –
right on the money for best accuracy."
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Old June 17, 2012, 12:10 PM   #10
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Well JM, you certainly have the statistics to back up what you're saying, but those tolerances could easily vary gun to gun. I'm not a accuracy shooter as such, I bought my guns to have fun with, and if I can put it on paper close enough to cover with a dollar bill, I,m having fun. I gonna assume my gun has a .450 throat and consider it good. They're still fine guns, new or old!!
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Old June 17, 2012, 01:31 PM   #11
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Ruger made fixed sight versions of the Single Six in .22 and in .32 caliber; these are sometimes called "Baby Vaqueros" and they've been out of production for some time. Here's a link to a GunBlast article on the subject: http://www.gunblast.com/Baby_Vaquero.htm

I've seen them with standard and birdshead grips. There was a Bisley version that I believe was a distributor exclusive.

The .32s were popular in cowboy action, especially with ladies and youth, because the Baby Vaquero satisfied the minimum caliber requirement and the grip/frame size was considerably smaller than the Ruger Vaquero. I still see them for sale used from time to time.
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Old June 17, 2012, 01:45 PM   #12
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I remember those, weren't they also [ Or first offered] in .32 mag.? Is there any gun still offered in .32 mag. It was never one of my favorite calibers, so I lost tract of it over the years. But I know it approached .38 Special territory in ballistics, but that's all I remember. I don't think it took off like H+R imagined it would. It was pretty much a clone of .32-20 but in a smaller case. Having a 'Baby' Vaquero in .32 mag. would be kinda cool.

Last edited by buckhorn; June 17, 2012 at 01:51 PM.
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Old June 17, 2012, 06:04 PM   #13
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Actually, the fixed sight .32H&R's WERE built on the Single-Six frame, AND referred to as "Baby Vaquero's".

http://www.gunblast.com/Baby_Vaquero.htm



Some also refer to their fixed sight .22LR Single-Six as a Baby Vaquero, too.

.

.
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Old June 17, 2012, 07:01 PM   #14
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These are not refered to as Vaquero's but just fixed sight 22 Caliber Single Six Convertibles (22LR/22Mag). The 4 5/8" gun has a XR3 RED Short Grip Frame and the 6 1/2" gun has a NM XR3 Frame.



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Old June 17, 2012, 07:16 PM   #15
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here's one of each

the first picture is an ''old'' model Vaquero on the bottom, with the ''new'' model Vaquero on top. The old model cylinder is a larger diameter (thicker walls), but the same length. The hammer spur on the new model is lower, making the new model much easier to cock. The frame and grip frame is slightly smaller on the new model. (Colt Peacemaker size). The second picture is the new model on the bottom, the single six .32 H&R magnum in the center and the old model on the top. This shows the relative sizes of the pistol frames and grips. The Bisley grip, even though the frame itself is smaller at the cylinder, is actually larger than the Vaqueros. The third picture is the new model on the left, the bisley in the center, and the old model on the right. I shaved the Vaquero grips (Ajax) to have a similar ''feel''. The Bisley is quite thick. The 2 Vaqueros are .45 Colt.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg vaquero frames 001.JPG (180.8 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg vaquero frames 003.JPG (192.4 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg vaquero frames 007.JPG (180.6 KB, 21 views)
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Last edited by rodent.22; June 17, 2012 at 07:22 PM.
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Old June 18, 2012, 12:41 PM   #16
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REP1954- What kind of finish is on that 4 5/8 single six you showed. I really like it. The gun looks 100 years older than what it is. Really fine looking six-shooter.
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Old June 18, 2012, 04:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
REP1954- What kind of finish is on that 4 5/8 single six you showed. I really like it. The gun looks 100 years older than what it is. Really fine looking six-shooter.
This gun is a 50TH Anniversary that was cleaned and not oiled I believe and then put up on a self in a damp place. The gun turned into a rust bucket except for the bore and chambers whick must not have been cleaned of the lube that came on it. I used steel wool and emery paper on it to clean it up. I used cold blue on it and then hit it with some 000 plastic wool. The grip frame I bought online and is steel. Hammer and trigger are Power Customs 3 click that correct cylinder and ejector alignment.
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Old June 19, 2012, 01:18 PM   #18
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I like 'antique finish revolvers' but they cost a ton more than reg. finish guns. I would like to find a project like that and make it look 100 yrs. old. I'll just keep going to gun shows, maybe something like that will be around that just needs some TLC.
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Old June 21, 2012, 05:45 PM   #19
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Just as a side note, one other way to tell the difference between old and new Vaquero is the serial numbers. The New Vaquero will have a three digit prefix ... say 520-12345....

Quote:
if I can put it on paper close enough to cover with a dollar bill, I,m having fun.
You might be pleasantly surprised if you had your cylinder throats reamed to .4525.... After reaming my 'old' Vaquero's cylinder throats, my group size were cut in half.... so you 'may' be able to cover holes with a 50 cent piece if you give it the treatment rather than a dollar bill .... I've since reamed all of my .45 Colt Rugers to .4525 . My newer flattop .45 convertibles were 'close' but still needed the treatment. Why Ruger can't get the .45 Colt throats right, when the .44s are usually right on is beyond me! That's a different subject though!

As PetahW states, there were baby Vaqueros made. Someday I might run onto one.
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Old June 21, 2012, 10:40 PM   #20
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Great post as I'm looking to buy a Colt clone in .45 cal. Those specks on the throats will help me get the right gun the first time. (.452)
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Old June 22, 2012, 04:05 AM   #21
4V50 Gary
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How does the Ruger old Army frame fit into this picture, if it all?
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Old June 22, 2012, 04:24 AM   #22
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Quote:
How does the Ruger old Army frame fit into this picture, if it all?
It used the same XR3-RED frame the Blackhawk and Single Six used.
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Old June 22, 2012, 02:41 PM   #23
buckhorn
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RCLARK- Thanks for info. I called around to a couple gunshops here and only one knew what I was talking about! Seems were I live there are 9mm guys and some .45 auto guys. One guy even tried to sell me a gun over the phone. [ I quess no gun smith's here ]. Well, I'll go to internet like I always do . By the way, money wise, what's a ballpark figure, and can you recommend someone who knows what they're doing. I'm intriqued now.
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Old June 22, 2012, 05:35 PM   #24
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Did you call Duncan's?
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Old June 23, 2012, 06:17 AM   #25
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I know that my Blackhawk and Single Six can interchange grips. The New Vaquero will not.
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