The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 13, 2012, 09:06 AM   #26
Technosavant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO area
Posts: 3,849
Quote:
The issue really ought to be regarding the airlines accepting for shipment what will immediately become contraband at the destination. That is something that ought to be ended at the airline level.
I think this is correct- if the airline plans to call the cops on you if you check a handgun in NY, then they need to refuse to accept that handgun in your luggage when you try to check it on a flight that will end in NY. They should also warn their customers that if for some reason a flight ends up being diverted to NY that they should NOT claim the bag upon arrival.

An eager willingness to hand you over to the police if you violate the law should be balanced with an eager willingness to help keep their customers from violating that law.
Technosavant is offline  
Old June 13, 2012, 09:28 AM   #27
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,529
To play devil's advocate - it is clearly on their website that you have to the know the laws of your destination.

Why should they be more of a nanny to you then that?
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old June 13, 2012, 10:40 AM   #28
Technosavant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO area
Posts: 3,849
Quote:
Why should they be more of a nanny to you then that?
I'd flip it right over- why should they feel the need to call the cops on you?

If they care so much about the law that they'll drop the dime on their customers then I'd personally expect them to try to help me keep the law. Obviously they know the laws, they can share some knowledge- it won't cost them anything to do it.

I agree that one should be extra cautious when flying with firearms, but I expect a company with whom I am doing business to show some concern for me, the customer.
Technosavant is offline  
Old June 13, 2012, 10:53 AM   #29
Fishing_Cabin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 10, 2010
Posts: 706
I didnt see in either article where the flight orginated from, though I would venture a guess it was from somewhere in/near South Dakota, and ended in NYC. My thoughts are that the person at the originating airport checked the firearm in with the baggage along the lines of federal, airline, and local (at the origination) regulations.

While there may be some thought that the airline should know the regulations for each of their destinations, it would be almost impossible for them to not only record, and organize them in a way useful to the baggage/ticket agents, but also to train every baggage/ticket agent in them. They do what is reasonable and train them to know the federal regulations, airline policy, and the local restrictions for that location. With the many destinations both in the USA and worldwide, it is basically left up to the person traveling to do their own homework to determine the legality. After all, could you really to expect a baggage/ticket agent to know the current regulations for any destination in the world?

I feel the airline did the correct thing in this situation.

Last edited by Fishing_Cabin; June 13, 2012 at 10:59 AM.
Fishing_Cabin is offline  
Old June 13, 2012, 11:05 AM   #30
Don H
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2000
Location: SLC,Utah
Posts: 2,705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie Sutton
The issue really ought to be regarding the airlines accepting for shipment what will immediately become contraband at the destination. That is something that ought to be ended at the airline level.
That's all well and good but expecting the airlines, and their employees, to be familiar with the firearms laws of all 50 states (plus territories), and disseminate that information to passengers, is, in my opinion, unrealistic; not to mention the liability issues involved when imparting information that can have legal consequences. For example, I can legally fly with my handgun to State X. At check-in, should it be the airlines' duty to warn me that two of the 5 magazines I have in the case are illegal to transport into State X? Or that a particular type of ammunition I have packed in the case is illegal to possess at my destination?

I think it is the responsibility of the passenger to determine whether his firearms and accessories are legal to possess at his destination and not that of the airline or another third party. These are putatively adults that we are talking about and adults should be held accountable for their actions.
Don H is offline  
Old June 13, 2012, 11:30 AM   #31
Willie Sutton
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2012
Posts: 1,066
The easy answer to all of the above is something that is glaringly obvious, but often lost in the shuffle:

ONLY New York State, of all of the 50 states, has a blanket prohiobition on the posession of handguns by non-residents or unlicensed residents.

Not California, or New Jersey, or anywhere else.

So... it's not rocket science to not accept as a shipment a handgun on a flight that terminates in New York.

Yes, people ought to be knowlagable of the laws. With that said, if you grow up in a "firearms socially accepted" part of the country, this issue may so far removed from your worldview that it's just not "on the mental radar". A little reminder from the airlines would be good citizenship, and good business practice.



Willie

.
Willie Sutton is offline  
Old June 13, 2012, 11:45 AM   #32
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,529
They did warn folks about local laws on their website. Need they do more than that?

OH, I see you are a naive person from a gun state - remember you are going to NYC.

Why is it their responsibility beyond having easily available info on their website?

As far as calling the law - that's a different issue. We like guns so we don't like them dropping the dime. But if they discovered another illegal thing, like drugs - would we feel this way?

If the Pres. had paid attention, he wouldn't be caught. I don't see how they are responsible to a lawbreaker (even though I don't like the law). Let's SUE!

That's what gets me. Let's sue for our own stupidity.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old June 13, 2012, 11:51 AM   #33
Willie Sutton
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2012
Posts: 1,066
No arguments... the law is the law.

Being a good citizen is another subject. That should be done by passengers, but a little bit of proactive good-citizenship on the part of the airlines would not really hurt either, would it?


Willie

.
Willie Sutton is offline  
Old June 13, 2012, 11:51 AM   #34
mapsjanhere
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 6, 2009
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 2,342
The odd part, imo, is that by handing the guy the gun after his incoming flight they already aided a felony. Calling only on the return flight won't cut it as an argument.
__________________
F 135 - the right choice
mapsjanhere is offline  
Old June 13, 2012, 12:00 PM   #35
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,529
If it was in his suitcase and checked, the receiving airport wouldn't know. Unless, they electronically key that you have a gun beyond the TSA check in. There's no marker on the outside.

I've had noticeable rifle cases taken to the office for me. That is to prevent theft on the carousel. But that case is identifiable.

I don't know if the arrival luggage handles know of the firearms content. Does anyone know that?
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old June 13, 2012, 02:55 PM   #36
NJgunowner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,066
Generally speaking no. The people who handle the luggage in the back aren't exactly high paid or usually overly intelligent. The airline and airport don't want them knowing what's in a particular bag as it can create a temptation they don't want to deal with.
__________________
Sig 1911 Traditional reverse two tone, Sig p226 .40, Sig 556 Swat patrol, Baby Eagle/jerico steel .45
NJgunowner is offline  
Old June 13, 2012, 04:09 PM   #37
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 6,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer
I don't know if the arrival luggage handles know of the firearms content. Does anyone know that?
They are not supposed to. That's the reason why the regulations specifically do NOT allow placing any notice on the outer suitcase in which the locked gun case is placed.

However, this offers no protection from the baggage handlers with TSA keys who go through the bags while they're in the cargo hold of the aircraft on the apron, before unloading them ...
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old June 15, 2012, 02:59 PM   #38
Musketeer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 12, 2005
Posts: 3,731
I live on Long Island and while I have only flown out of Islip (50 miles from JFK but still NY) I have some experience here. There are a couple items many here are not familiar with.

1. In NY it is ILLEGAL to TOUCH a handgun if you do not have a NY permit.
2. The NY metropolitan area has an overall low firearm education level. Both passengers exposed to a visible firearm and gate agents are likely to have near zero knowledge.
3. The ticket agents cannot touch the firearm and are not to have it exposed without a LEO present.
4. To confirm the weapon is clear and properly stored the agent needs a LEO present.
5. Once there the LEO will ensure the possessor is within the law.
__________________
"Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." Thomas Jefferson

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Benjamin Franklin
Musketeer is offline  
Old June 15, 2012, 03:04 PM   #39
NJgunowner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,066
Well, someone at NJ2AS must have read this thread because here's the answer to all your, ok some of your NYC airport questions. NJ2AS members going through these airports are encouraged to print a copy of this document and keep it with them.

http://www.nj2as.com/Resources/Documents/GCA926A.pdf
__________________
Sig 1911 Traditional reverse two tone, Sig p226 .40, Sig 556 Swat patrol, Baby Eagle/jerico steel .45
NJgunowner is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09179 seconds with 7 queries