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Old June 3, 2012, 02:27 PM   #1
M1Rifle30-06
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9mm +p+ vs .357 SIG

The 125 grain .357 Sig round goes about 1425 fps on average from buffalo bore: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/187...free-box-of-20

The 124 grain 9mm +P from doubletap goes about 1300 fps, and the 115 grain goes about 1410 fps.

Does the .357 SIG's 1 more grain and 125 more fps really make that big a difference over the 9mm +p? And in the case of the 115 grain, does the .357's 10 more grains and 15 more fps make a difference?

I've been thinking about getting a .357 SIG, but after this finding I might just go with a heavy duty 9mm like an all steel SIG226, shoot regular 9mm for practice and the hot loaded stuff for SD.

What do yall think?


I know I'm comparing a hot loaded 9mm to a standard .357 SIG, but the point still stands, I think.

Last edited by M1Rifle30-06; June 3, 2012 at 02:32 PM.
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Old June 3, 2012, 02:50 PM   #2
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I have nothing against the 9mm and I think that it is much more versatile, more affordable and has been around a very long time. IMO however there will never be a 9mm Luger that is as powerful as any .357 Sig round. The +p+ is at the extreme level of 9mm and not regulated as to its pressures or added velocities. The .357 Sig in just its standard stuff is hotyer then a +p+ 9mm. If you take a 115 grain .357 Sig it will exceed any 115 grain 9mm. That to me is the plus side to the .357 Sig is that it reaches levels that a 9mm casing couldnt meet. That being said however. I would rather have a 9mm myself but for reasons other then trying to equal .357 sig. 9mm +p is more then adequate and has advantages over the .357 Sig IMO.
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Old June 3, 2012, 03:13 PM   #3
M1Rifle30-06
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maybe, but still, in their closest loadings, .357 SIG is only 1 more grain and 125 more fps. Yes, that's with a rather over-pressured 9mm, but still. The "stopping power" would seem to be about equal.
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Old June 3, 2012, 03:56 PM   #4
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All things being equal, they ain't. 125 fps is huge on the lower end of the velocity squared part of this equation. 9mm case is tiny, and doesn't hold much rocket fuel. Go up to 147gr. and .357 Sig really rocks.
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Old June 3, 2012, 04:54 PM   #5
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Back when I was really into 357SIG, I emailed Speer with a question on the difference in velocity between them and if there was a "barrier" speed wise, that the 357SIG crossed that made it that much more effective (similar to what you see in the .223's in the AR's) and this is the response I got from them.....

Quote:
The 9mm is a 35,000 psi, +P is
38,500 psi and +P+ is 40,000 psi. The 357 SIG is a 40,000 psi. Bullets
of the same weight will approximate the same velocities in SIG and +P+.

The difference is gun construction, all 9mm's will not handle +P+. All
of the 357 SIG's are made to handle the pressures for the caliber.
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The first part basically tells you that there is really little difference.

As to the last part, interestingly enough, my Glock 31 in 357SIG was beating itself to death, my 9mm Glocks, a couple of which have more +P+ through them than my 31 did 357SIG, show only a minor amount of finish wear at the same point the 31 was tore up. Go figure.

Having shot both 357SIG and +P+ 9mm out of my 31, and comparing them one after the other, the gun handled pretty much exactly the same. By "feel", I seriously doubt you could tell what you were shooting if someone just loaded the gun and handed it to you.

The 357SIG is an interesting round, I just dont think what you might gain, is worth the extra money it commands. I can shoot a lot more for the same money with my 9mm's, and still live in the 357SIG realm with +P+.
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Old June 3, 2012, 06:02 PM   #6
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Old June 3, 2012, 06:23 PM   #7
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Great round. The 357 sig was my primary for over ten years. Ammo cost isn't worth it when comparing results. The 9mm (124 +P & standard 147 grain,) 357 Sig and 40S&W are too close to offer any real advantage in self defense. 357 sig ammo is the same price as 45acp. I found that the muzzle blast & report were beating me up on indoor ranges. It is a very accurate round and it is very good for self defense the question is can you afford to shoot it.
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Old June 3, 2012, 08:47 PM   #8
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I'd agree that the 357sig offers little over the better 9mm loadings. But I gotta ask if you don't think 125 fps makes a difference, why use +p+ 9mm.
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Old June 4, 2012, 08:50 AM   #9
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9mm +P+ vs .357 sig: more or less "apples to apples"

These are 5 shot chrono averages from my pistols:

G26 Ranger T +P+ 127 gr. @ 1,182 fps / 394# KE
G19 Ranger T +P+ 127 gr. @ 1,238 fps / 433# KE

G33 Ranger T 125 gr. @ 1,280 fps / 454# KE (13% more KE vs G26 & +P+)
G33 Gold Dot 125 gr. @ 1,315 fps / 480# KE (18% more KE vs G26 & +P+)
G33 Cor-Bon 125 gr. @ 1,324 fps / 486# KE (19% more KE vs G26 & +P+)

G32 Gold Dot 125 gr. @ 1,334 fps / 494# KE (12% more KE vs G19 & +P+)
G32 Cor-Bon 125 gr. @ 1,380 fps / 528# KE (18% more KE vs G19 & +P+)

With the ammo I tried, the .357 sig produced 12% - 19% more KE (power) than one of the hottest +P+ 9mm rounds.
Those particular 9mm +P+ loads can be difficult to obtain (restricted by policy, not law), while the .357 Sig (Gold Dot & Cor-Bon) is available to non-LE.
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Old June 4, 2012, 11:02 AM   #10
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^^^^ CDW4ME: Excellent post. This really helps shed some light on the repeated .357Sig vs. 9mm+P+ debates.

Most of the past threads on this topic use cherry-picked ballistics figures from the ammo companies. IMHO factory ballistics are like the treadwear rating numbers that tire makers put on their tires- they're only meaningful for comparisons within that manufacturer's own lineup; they aren't useful for comparisons with other makers because the testing standards are never the same.

I'd also like to add another figure:

Chances that a pistol maker will honor their warranty if you blow the pistol up with factory ammo: ~90% better with .357Sig than 9mm+P+.
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Old June 4, 2012, 11:11 AM   #11
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Kinetic energy is somewhat of a fallacy for "stopping power". There's a report done by the FBI in 1989 that debunks stopping power. What you need is deep penetration and multiple shots. I recently attended a tactical pistol class and our instructor compared the body to a series of "timers" and "switches". Blood vessels being the timers and CNS being switches. Multiple shots to the chest means deep penetration and higher potential to reach the spine. I have the Sig226 and Sig239 both in 9mm and shoot +p 124 grain ammo. Stick to the tried and true highly available 9mm.
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Old June 4, 2012, 11:22 AM   #12
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Be aware of published velocities. In real world guns I believe you may find that 124 gr 9mm+p will be closer to 357 sig than the quoted 125 fps.

My G-19 chronographs 124 gr. +p ammo at 1250 fps. That is within 50-75 fps of most real world 357 sig loads from 4" barrels. Not enough difference to justify fewer rounds, more muzzle blast, recoil, and in my opinion slightly less reliability.
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Old June 4, 2012, 12:12 PM   #13
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I've always been of the opinion that if you honestly believe the caliber you are looking at is only effective in a +p+ loading, then you personally need to choose a different caliber because you apparently have very little faith in it . Personally I like 147 gr 9mm or 165 gr 40 SW.
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Old June 4, 2012, 12:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Personally I like 147 gr 9mm.....
There was a time 147grain 9mm was considered to be good, and the solution to the 9mm not being effective, then it wasnt, now it is again. Wonder what happened?

Oh, by the way, its a trick question and "opinion" has nothing to do with it, or not.
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Old June 4, 2012, 12:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Oh, by the way, its a trick question and "opinion" has nothing to do with it, or not.
Huh?
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Old June 4, 2012, 01:18 PM   #16
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Quote:
There was a time 147grain 9mm was considered to be good, and the solution to the 9mm not being effective, then it wasnt, now it is again. Wonder what happened?
Because it wasn't really any more effective back when it wouldn't expand and all the light bullets that did expand wouldn't penatrate. Now that the 147s expand consistant and the little bullets stay together better and penatrate it's still really not any better than 115-127s but all weights of 9mm from 115 to 147 have better more effective options now .
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Old June 4, 2012, 01:23 PM   #17
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Quote:
...but all weights of 9mm from 115 to 147 have better more effective options now .
and that is the answer to the question.
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Old June 4, 2012, 10:05 PM   #18
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If you hand-load you can push the 9mm to the +P+ category.

As those bullets also shoot in the 357 Sig they are intended to work at that velocity in either gun.

For real world I think the only real place it has is LEO where barrier penetration is a requirement (at least the ability to, if not always used). Highways Patrol would be one for sure.

For HD or CC 9mm in +p more than serves the need, though you would not loose anything with 357 Sig (though depending on the bullet and velocity a bit too much penetration is a potential issue)

Hand load both to maximum potential and the 357 Sig will maintain its lead.

Its an interesting caliber and I suspect I will get one for a range gun one of these days.

Ammo cost are not an issue with handloading, first shells will cost (don't find 357 Sig at the range often though I am collecting), bullets the same, primer the same and a bit more powder but you get so many per pound its a non issue.
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Old June 5, 2012, 11:41 AM   #19
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As others have already pointed out, all of the service calibers perform so similarly to each other with modern bullets that this argument is becoming even more pointless.




That being said, I understand wanting something just because its cool (looking at you 5.7x28 and .327 Magnum!)
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