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Old June 1, 2012, 01:32 PM   #1
9ballbilly
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pocket carry draw with timer

Lately I've been carrying a S&W bodygaurd .38+P in a DeSantis pocket holster much more often than anything else. I've started using a timer to clock my draw and fire sequence. I can now draw and fire one round (consistantly hitting inside the eight ring ) at 15', averaging seven tenths of a second. However, I don't have anything to compare this to. I don't know if this is average, below average, or what. I'd like to know if anyone else practices timed draw and fire drills and what a "good" time would be.

P.S. I'm well aware that I'm no Wild Bill or Doc Holliday. I just would like an idea of how fast is enough if my or my sons life depended on my ability. I also know there is no concrete answer, but would like to hear what you experienced shooters think. Thanks
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Old June 1, 2012, 02:36 PM   #2
gunsablazin
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Are you starting with your hand on the gun? I can't draw and fire my 1911 from a competition holster that fast, from concealment (IDPA) I'll average about 1.3 sec @ 7 yards. I'm not Wild Bill either, but 7 tenths of a sec. is smoking fast.
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Old June 1, 2012, 03:20 PM   #3
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Are you timing from a signal to draw controlled by someone else?
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Old June 1, 2012, 06:04 PM   #4
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Most shot timers, (mine anyway) has the start buzzard going off at radom times, meaning you don't know when they are going off.

What the OP is talking about is more then doable.............like any thing else, it just takes practice.

I practice drawing my 642 from my pocket all the time, there is nothing unreasonable about the times posted by the OP.

My best time was .43, most are a bit slower then that.

That of course is starting with my hand in the pocket gripping the revolver.

But I normally walk around with my hands in my pocket anyway and do most of my pocket revolver one handed.
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Old June 1, 2012, 08:10 PM   #5
9ballbilly
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Yes I do start with my hand on the gun, I too usually have my hands in my pockets anyway. The timer I use has random start times as well. I should have included that in the OP. I should also mention that I practiced a couple hundred times with a "dry" gun first for safety.

Kraigwy: It looks like we are practicing almost exactly the same. My best time so far was .65, thanks for posting a time so I have something to compare it too. Are you able to average under a half second?

Last edited by 9ballbilly; June 1, 2012 at 08:21 PM.
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Old June 1, 2012, 08:38 PM   #6
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That's still darn fast. I can do .85ish when I'm really warmed up with my Ghost race holster with arms relaxed at sides, but I use the larger IPSC targets. And I'm sad to say I haven't practiced 100's of times, but 1,000s of dry practice runs just to get where I am (B class IPSC shooter).

You make me sick!

In all seriousness, you should probably develop that talent and get into competitive shooting of one sort or another if you haven't already.
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Old June 1, 2012, 08:52 PM   #7
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I have one of those little blue rubber practice guns I use to practice. I cut the hammer off so it better matches my 642.

I spend a lot of time walking around the house, shop and yard practicing.

You can get pretty dern quick if you work at it.

I can get it out but hitting the target keeps me in the high .50s, low .60s.
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Old June 27, 2012, 10:55 PM   #8
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Forrest Gump said

As my friend Forrest said:

"Quick is as quick does"
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Old June 28, 2012, 05:00 AM   #9
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I carry my Model 38 in my right front pocket, sans holster. Never used a holster for it off-duty. How fast can I draw it? Dunno, never measured it, but taking it out of my pocket is second nature and it's a totally natural movement.

The few times I've had to draw if from a pocket, I had it in my hand before the threat was aware that the game had changed. One second I was a perceived victim, the next I was standing there with a gun in my hand. It's unsettling to the average goblin to have the rules change in the opening seconds. They tend to just run-away. Then, you're left standing with a gun in one hand and an adrenaline dump in your gut.

Training is useful and has spawned an industry that didn't exist 40 years ago. Knowing how fast you can draw a handgun might also be useful, as we tend to measure everything, quantify everything, want to compete in ways that are defined. However, the simple fact of the matter is that for most street crime, simply having a gun is enough. Situational awareness should give you that second you need to draw the gun and have it in your hand before the scenario goes south.
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Old June 28, 2012, 06:25 AM   #10
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Starting with your hand on the gun is cheating a little bit. Pay of drawing is getting the right grip, and Murphy says that if you had to draw for real, you wouldn't have your hand in your pocket already.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus that ate your iPhone.
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Old June 28, 2012, 06:48 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralgha
Starting with your hand on the gun is cheating a little bit.
Ain't no rules in a gunfight.
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Old June 28, 2012, 08:15 AM   #12
kraigwy
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Quote:
you wouldn't have your hand in your pocket already
Some people (me for one) walk around with their hands in their pockets as a course of habbit.

I could post a dozen pictures of me with my hands in my pocket. Its just the way I walk around, gun or no gun.

Like Paw Paw says, not many bandits expect an old man walking around with his hands in his pocket to be gripping his revolver. Puts surprise in your court.
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Old June 28, 2012, 03:18 PM   #13
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Time youself with this scenario...

Hold a bag of groceries in your weak hand (a couple rolls of tissue or the like will work fine). In your strong hand hold your keys as if you are unlocking you car door or house door. When the buzzer goes off do your draw (DRY PRACTICE!!!!!).

This is a likely scenario in the real world. I bet your reaction time, draw time, and fire time are considerably slower than you're seeing above.

This real world scenario draw will give you a better idea of what it will take when you actually need to defend yourself and will show you that awareness is VERY important as an aspect of a "quick draw"!
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Old June 30, 2012, 09:41 AM   #14
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One of the things that really helped me was military training. We were trained to always keep our right hand empty. That made it easier to salute those Ocifers that craved that.
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Old July 9, 2012, 02:44 PM   #15
rem44m
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Wow 7 tenths is fast!!!! Wow! I need to practice more
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Old July 10, 2012, 08:03 AM   #16
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I'm on my annual road trip to Portland, for my Daughters 4th of July get together.

We went shooting as my daughter wanted me to work with her shooting a bit.

She ask about this very topic. She heard me mention that I can get my revolver in action in about 1/2 second and wanted to see it.

I gave her the shot timer and had her give me a start. From the pocket, hitting center mass at 7 yards I did it in .45 seconds. It can be done, but like anything else, it takes practice.

I also showed her that, just because one has the drop on you, you still have the ball in your court.

I had her aim at the target, then when she saw me start to draw, she was to shoot. I asked her if she was ready, she said yeap, I ask again if she was watching me, and if she was ready, when she said "I'm ready", I drew and shot. She said she wasn't ready. I did this three out of three times. Each time as she was telling me she was ready.

She ask me how I could beat her when she was already on target, and finger on the trigger. I simply told her she talked too much. Shoot don't talk. You can't talk and shoot at the same time.

It doesn't take much to distract a person, you can act faster then you can re-act.

People say it can't be done because they have a mental block, they think they can't do it so they can't. Practice. Tell your self you can do it, then practice until you can. But its not like riding a bicycle. You have to keep at it or you will loose your ability.

I'm not a pistol shooter, I'm a rifle shooter. Add that to the fact that in a couple weeks I'll be 65 years old, If I can do it, anyone can.
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Old July 10, 2012, 11:29 PM   #17
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In the Ft Worth Police academy they taught us little things to distract someone who has the drop on you, like Kraig says, get them talking. Another "trick" is in the hands up position wiggle your fingers, they look at the movement, and BAM draw why they are distracted.

These are obviously last ditch maneuvers. With consistency and practice you can draw pretty quick.
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Old July 11, 2012, 06:47 PM   #18
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9ballbilly,

If you keep your hands in your pockets most of the time someone will sucker punch you first. That is the street. They don't just tell you they are gonna rob or hurt you. They slide up and try to get a conversation with you and either go from there or a 'stranger' walks on past and blindsides you.

Yes it's faster to draw with your hand on the gun. It's also faster to throw a fast jab than to draw. For there is more to self defense than guns. Guns are a part of it but there is more.

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Old July 11, 2012, 07:06 PM   #19
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I always wondered what I would do if held at gun or knife point and trying to distract someone long enough to draw and fire. I came to the conclusion that a good tactic would be to pretend to look over/behind them, as if you just noticed someone walking up behind the guy. There's a very good chance they are going to turn their head to see what you are looking at, possibly in fear of police or one of your buddies coming up behind them, this could give you just enough time to draw and get a shot or two off. I also like the wiggling fingers trick some of you mentioned, pretty clever.
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Old July 13, 2012, 10:29 AM   #20
9ballbilly
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Deaf,
I agree with everything you said. There are any number of possible scenarios. I certainly idealized what I did (and do) as a training exercise. I do habitually seem to walk with my hands in my pockets, not because that's where the gun is. I do it as often when OWB carrying. In the "real" world I employ the situational awareness I learned as a former LEO and 25yrs of martial arts experience as a first line of defense. I also employ two simple tricks, if you can call them that. First, I sit with my back towards a wall whenever possible and second I routinely keep my left (strong) hand empty.
When we go out holding hands my wife holds my right hand. Other than carrying a folding knife which can be pressed into service in an emergency that's as far down the self-defense road as I go. This will undoubtedly seem like overkill to some and not nearly far enough to others.

Last edited by 9ballbilly; July 13, 2012 at 10:42 AM.
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