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Old June 3, 2012, 07:12 PM   #51
KMAX
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I agree with Lost Sheep (#33) and testuser (44). I am about to get rid of my Lee Pro 1000 and get a turret press due to space limitations in my garage, several calibers and 100-150 round loading sessions. I started with the Pro 1000 and discovered that I like to inspect each round after each step. May be OCD, I don't know, but that's me. Due to my obsession, I use the single stage Lee more often than the progressive. I enjoy the process of reloading rather than trying to crank out a lot of ammo as fast as possible. It is another part of my shooting hobby. I also don't try to shoot up all my ammo as fast as possible.
As for starting with a single stage, you might learn more about what you want in a loader that way and as many others have said they are inexpensive and almost a necessity on a reloading bench no matter what else you have.

My $.02.
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Old June 3, 2012, 08:05 PM   #52
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re: posts 33 and 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Sheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNT
Go Progressive or go home
A bit hyperbolic, don't you think? (edited for brevity)
no offense lost sheep just thought it was a catchy line hope no one took offense to it, it was never intended for that I just got caught up in the moment
Thanks for clarifying. I interpreted it as a bit judgemental. Glad I was wrong.

I, too, love a poetic turn of phrase and that one was a good one.

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Old June 3, 2012, 08:28 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobnpr
Quote:
Originally Posted by zxcvbob
It has a lot more degrees of movement and complexity. More parts moving at once give more opportunity for slop and tolerances to stack up.
I have no idea what you're talking about...

Quote:
"Slop", "tolerances", how is that going to degrade in a progressive press?

The dies are the same, used the exact same way....

Specifics to back your argument?
To my mind, "slop" is pejorative and therefore, argumentative. Forgive me, please, if I am wrong. Tolerances and "play" are less so. Most Single stage presses are cast in one piece and have no play and (arguably) a tolerance of zero, by definition. Progressives and turrets are necessarily an assembly of parts, some of which move. They must have clearances to move and those clearances/tolerances can "stack". "Tolerance Stacking" is a term of art in machinists' language. Look it up.

Quote:
And.. do you OWN a progressive press??

Seems to be a lot of armchair quarterbacking here...
Maybe, maybe not. Did you take a look at his posting history to see what kind of experience he claims?

Be nice, please. We are trying to give advice to a newcomer. Invective is not useful in that regard, is it?

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Old June 3, 2012, 08:35 PM   #54
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I'm sorry, I just gotta ask

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmorris
I own over a dozen presses 9 are progressives several turret presses and yes single stage as well. As you would likely guess the progressive get used far more than the others. So your ok to get a progressive if you don't have the patience for a single stage. I can load 100 rounds in under 3 min, what is the fastest time per hundred you have heard on a single stage?
1.8 seconds per round is certainly doable. Is that cyclic or continuous?

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Last edited by Lost Sheep; June 4, 2012 at 08:52 PM.
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Old June 3, 2012, 10:40 PM   #55
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I find all of the discussion interesting. I can see all sides of each point of view.

I have loaded on a single stage for several years but by no means consider myself an expert. I feel very comfortable running a thousand or two at a time one step at a time for various calibers.

This past weekend I spend some time with a friend who has a Square D and a 550. I am a very mechanical person but the shear amount of activity that is taking place with a progressive is considerable. I have been considering a progressive for a couple years and had pretty much decided on the LNL with the 650 the choice if money were no issue. However, after this weekend progressive introduction I am not certain a progressive is for me. I like the single product completion and allows me to inspect each step of the way.

But that is me.
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Old June 3, 2012, 11:01 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskerguy
I find all of the discussion interesting. I can see all sides of each point of view.

I have loaded on a single stage for several years but by no means consider myself an expert. I feel very comfortable running a thousand or two at a time one step at a time for various calibers.

This past weekend I spend some time with a friend who has a Square D and a 550. I am a very mechanical person but the shear amount of activity that is taking place with a progressive is considerable. I have been considering a progressive for a couple years and had pretty much decided on the LNL with the 650 the choice if money were no issue. However, after this weekend progressive introduction I am not certain a progressive is for me. I like the single product completion and allows me to inspect each step of the way.

But that is me.
It is good that you see through the rhetoric presented here. I urge you to examine and experiment with progressives. My experience with my progressives and calculations as to their benefits to me personally do not apply to everyone. Tripling (or more) your production rate is nothing to dismissed. Nor is the comfort factor ow confidence in your process as you see best to choose it.

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Old June 4, 2012, 08:13 AM   #57
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There is much less going on or things you have to look out for reloading than when you drive your car to the store. I started loading on a progressive ($130 SD) 27 years ago at 13, if it required more than proper attention and average skill, I wouldn't have made it this far. Its not mystical, as some might suggest but results can be dangerous if you are careless.

As for tolerance stacking, the number of parts on a reloading machine are minuscule compared to the number of parts in the machines that assemble factory ammo, not to mention all of the components.
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Old June 4, 2012, 12:41 PM   #58
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I still don't get the "tolerances" issue, as well.

As long as the press cams over hard, ALL the "play" is removed. Metal on metal, is metal on metal.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just asking for specific facts that back up the argument.

I still maintain that, the only aspect of loading, that is done with less precision on a progressive press is the powder load because it is metered by volume and not weight.

Being able to "spot check", is not precision; but even with that argument, the LNL allows for any case to popped out of the spring retainer at any point in the loading process. As I stated, I regularly check charge weights and bullet seating depth. There is zero clearance even on the primer seating, if the primer is not seated flush the shellplate will not rotate without excessive resistance which is easily felt.

While it may be an unnecessary expense for those that load low volumes, or those that load for precision, I would never own anything but the progressive I use.
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Old June 4, 2012, 02:31 PM   #59
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Quote:
Don't buy the crap about starting with a Progressive as being a mistake.

IMO, not buying a Progressive- if that's what you need- is the mistake.
That is correct, and when some talk about patience they don't mean they want to bypass safety, they don't want to sit at the bench for an hour or two and then shoot that ammo in ten or twenty minutes the next day.

I didn't want to either, it is why I bought a 650 a few days after buying my LCT. (The only SS I own is a Lee hand press, any other is a boat anchor as far as I can tell, unless you want to swage your own bullets)

The only real issue is feeding these presses once you have the gist of it. A press like the 650 is made to order for a comp shooter and can run off 1000 rounds in an hour and a half without trying very hard.
If you aren't in that kind of hurry the H or (even slower) the RCBS will do. If you insist on premium priced stuff.

Strangely enough there are a zillion Load Master and Pro 1000 users out there that make as many rounds as most and they don't have the issues cried about here. That leads me to believe that Lee stuff used in its intended range and speed will likely outlast one as well as a D, or H, or R, or any other brand.
I would suggest, that if you don't know how to, or stay away from changing tires/batteries/oil and filters/head lights, etc etc, a complicated(relatively) press probably isn't for you. You do need to have some mechanical inclination, or you will miss something important, and a mistake on a progressive is multiplied.
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Old June 5, 2012, 06:58 PM   #60
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I started reloading on a Lee Loadmaster in late December of last year, thinking I didn't have the patience for a single stage. Unless I need to really crank 'em out, I now load all of my ammunition on a single stage while priming on the LM. I'm finding it not only more rewarding, but the quality is much better round for round than on the LM. I've seen what a Dillon can do and am sure the Hornady is also a better press (at a higher budget) than Lee's presses.

Everyone has their own opinion, but I will compare mine to this:

When I first started getting into handguns, I bought only auto-loaders because those dang revolvers looked slow and too old timey. After I bought my first 357 and shot it, I thought about how that should have been my first handgun. I'm finding myself realizing that a lot about other things as well now.


I even have one of those special edition Dillon/Lee LM550's, and it does not compare to the single stage to me.
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Old June 14, 2012, 11:55 PM   #61
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I started with a lee turret didn't care for it, since have moved up to a hornady LNL AP and love it best move yet but still learning just go slow and learn then you don't have a pile of old presses and parts in the corner
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Old June 15, 2012, 05:52 PM   #62
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Loadmaster

I started reloading this year after a winter of reading up on the aspects of reloading.

I started out with a Lee Loadmaster, and what alot of posters have said is true to a degree that it is a tempramental press, but with that said I learned alot about how progressive presses work and in particular how the Lee Loadmaster works.

With a Progressive press you can start out just doing one case at a time untill you get familar with all the aspects of the diffrent stations and what to look for as to correct loading and go on from there.

I love my Loadmaster, yes I tinkered alot with it ( got a scrap bucket with some bad rounds, crushed cases etc.), but that helped me learn about the press, but now it runs really smooth and I can very the rate of how much ammo I want to make in a session.

And yes its an economical press as far as cost goes compared to the other mentioned, and there all very good quality presses mentioned. the Loadmaster will get you quality ammo at a decent starting out price.

For 218 bucks for a progressive full ready to go in the caliber you want its a deal.

Now that I know much more about the press and what I can do with it I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Loadmaster.
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Old June 15, 2012, 07:54 PM   #63
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SO, has the OP started cranking out rounds every 3 seconds? If so, has he passed the Darwin Award selection and kept all of his fingers and eyes?
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Old June 15, 2012, 08:25 PM   #64
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I agree that you should start out on a single stage press. Even if you go progressive later you will still use the single stage press. A lot of progressive owners (myself included) leave the progressive set up for a single cartridge that we use very much, like 223 or 45 ACP, or 9mm. Then load the ammo with smaller requirements and experimental loads on the single stage.

I started on a single stage Rockchucker in 1984 and did get two Dillon RL550bs which I load 223 & 45s on. All my Magnum loads are loaded SS, 308 Win, 45/70, 44 Special, 38 Special, and as noted, any 223 & 45 loads that are experimental. It's a good system and works well for me. I can also load 9mms and 500 S&W and any other rounds that my friends may want for a gun that I don't own. I just load on the rockchucker SS. I use my RC as much as my Dillons.

May be a good idea to not have your reloading room too specialized.
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Old June 17, 2012, 01:47 PM   #65
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Hey, the Lee single stage press goes for $20.00 right now. Why not get that progressive and the SS? You can even hook up that powder measure on the SS using a spring that costs about a buck from a hardware store. Makes for charging loads pretty fast!

I'm sure you'll buy what your heart contends, and be very happy with your decision. Happy reloading!
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Old June 17, 2012, 09:01 PM   #66
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A couple of years ago, a friend of mine decided he wanted to start reloading. He had absolutely no experience in reloading. I talked him into buying a Dillon 550B. I set it up for him and over the next week I taught him how to reload. He used it as a single stage at first and after a week, he was using it as a progressive.
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