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Old May 27, 2012, 07:29 AM   #26
Amsdorf
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The people in the six other combat pits just would not be quiet and stop shooting their guns. The nerve!!

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Old May 27, 2012, 12:17 PM   #27
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This is teetering over The Abyss Of Closedness....

Everyone, POINT or AIM, it's up to you. Base your choice on actual testing, not uninformed opinion, either yours or some guy on the Net.

As for me.....

My HD 870s have peep sights. So do my deer rifle, my muzzle loaders and a fair number of things I used to have. Thousands of rounds have gone towards sundry targets and game guided by my peep sights.

I've also sent lots of lead out of bead sighted shotguns. The one 870 kept ready here with a bead can send some lead out PDQ and do so accurately at house distances.

Make your choice, but please do so after lots of BA/UU/R....
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Old May 27, 2012, 05:11 PM   #28
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Quote:
Call it whatever you want, you loveable knuckleheads are missing the point, entirely....

Hollywood has convinced people that a shotgun will work just fine simply by praying and spraying.

Call it what you want, "pointing" or "aiming"

You are missing the forest for the trees, bros.
And you, sir are missing the rebuttal saying your you tube video isn't all that, but won't admit it

Hollywood does the same thing with any type of "assault weapon", as do the young kids I see at the range - spray and pray seems to be the onl;y option for the Call of Duty crowd

Your first posts mentioned nothing about only using 00 buck, and for those who think that is the only use of a shotgun, well, I will disagree - a shotgun has a great usefulness outside the video game commando scene and the zombie attack zone - too bad most young folks don't seem to get THAT
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Old May 27, 2012, 06:34 PM   #29
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I have shot about 100 rounds of 00 Buck and probably about 5K rounds of bird shot since I have started shooting, just over a year ago.

The only time I "aim" a shotgun is when I am shooting static steel.
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Old May 27, 2012, 08:53 PM   #30
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I always welcome constructive criticism and interesting comments, so thanks, guys, for all your remarks.
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Old May 27, 2012, 09:38 PM   #31
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Nice little video.
I seem to be one of the few that actually watched and understood your point.

Yes, it is obvious to us on this forum that a scattergun must still be aimed (or pointed) at the target. Simply putting the muzzle in the direction of the target doesn't get it done.
But there are many outside the realm of shooitng who believe the hollywood scenarios. Anything that can get real information in those eyes is a good step.
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Old May 28, 2012, 07:09 AM   #32
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BTW, Paul, I liked the video.

It does reinforce what I've preached lo these many moons.

We actually have to shoot our shotguns to find out what they, and us, can do under pressure. The odds are low we'll need them, but the stakes are very high.
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Old May 28, 2012, 07:25 AM   #33
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I have to admit that after getting my first shotgun, I was disappointed at how easily I could miss.

Quote:
Oneounceload is right. You don't have to aim a shotgun but only point it if you get good with one. In fact, aiming at a flying target will likely result in a miss.
Whether you aim at a flying target or point at it, you will likely miss if you are talking about a target moving laterally to you. It doesn't matter if you are using a rifle, shotgun, or pistol. This isn't a shotgun issue, but a moving target issue.
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Old May 28, 2012, 08:32 AM   #34
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Taking a good defensive shotgun class is better than watching all the shotgun videos ever made.
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Old May 28, 2012, 08:48 AM   #35
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^^^Thank you Mr. Obvious
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Old May 28, 2012, 09:28 AM   #36
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Nothing wrong with the video I see. Its very basic info.

Aiming vs pointing... similar but different.
I aim shooting slugs and point for everything else. My shotgun points where I look, so mostly Im looking intently at what I want to hit. Works with birdshot or buckshot, on game, clays or steel plates.

FWIW, with a shotgun, if you are consciously doing mental calculations for lead, on a moving target , you missing ALOT.
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Old June 5, 2012, 09:00 AM   #37
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Well said, thanks.
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Old June 5, 2012, 09:24 AM   #38
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Hmmm

Quote:
Whether you aim at a flying target or point at it, you will likely miss if you are talking about a target moving laterally to you. It doesn't matter if you are using a rifle, shotgun, or pistol. This isn't a shotgun issue, but a moving target issue.
Hmmm. Tell that to the guys shooting Trap and Skeet and running 25-50-75-100 straight.....at least some of those targets are moving laterally.

About the differences of opinion regarding terminology....it was an easy argument to get into. Nothing in the OP referred to a HD situation using a buckshot load.....the qualifications/clarifications came later on.
I do agree that there are many folk who believe that all one has to do is face in the general direction of a target and the gun will do all the work. There are plenty shooters and non-shooters both, who do not understand shotguns or shotgunning as well as they should. The statement quoted, no offense meant, is an example as is the earlier comment about shotguns being primarily tools for HD. Maybe for some folk but as a generality, not so.
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Old June 5, 2012, 11:24 AM   #39
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In the video, which group of shots were the un-aimed? I must have missed the comparison part.
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Old June 5, 2012, 11:33 AM   #40
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Well Bob Munde does in a video where he can aim perfectly with hip fire. But, as well with a single action trigger. So give or take become a pro 12 world record champion and then go ahead and hip fire.
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Old June 5, 2012, 01:46 PM   #41
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In the video, none are unaimed, they are all aimed, as the video notes.

The point being to show that a shotgun:

(1) Must be aimed.
(2) Will not put out some sort of hail of lead while being fired Rambo style from the hip.

Even at the longest distance, the pattern is still all on the piece of paper.
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Old June 5, 2012, 01:58 PM   #42
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That's kinda my point. If you want to show the difference between the two, should you not also show the other half of the argument? All I see in the video is a target where I have to assume the shotgun is being aimed, and ending up on paper. Since the video is supposed to debunk a myth of not aiming a shotgun, should we not be able to see the difference between aimed and pointed?
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Old June 5, 2012, 02:08 PM   #43
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Quote:
Aiming vs pointing... similar but different.
I aim shooting slugs and point for everything else. My shotgun points where I look, so mostly Im looking intently at what I want to hit. Works with birdshot or buckshot, on game, clays or steel plates.

FWIW, with a shotgun, if you are consciously doing mental calculations for lead, on a moving target , you missing ALOT
+1 field shooting and killing things can expand one's understanding of how to use a shotgun, it's not just a musket redux
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Old June 5, 2012, 03:01 PM   #44
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terms

I understand "aiming" to mean using the sights on the firearm. As far as shotguns are concerned, I understand "pointing" to mean properly mounting a gun that fits me, looking at my prospective target while at the same time pointing the gun at that target. I may not look at the bead at all....especially on a close flushing grouse.
I just finished looking at a series of videos of Pat Flanigan and Ton Knapp shooting exhibitions and hitting everything that they look at.....gun upside down, from the hip, over the head, one handed, etc. They ain't using the sights. They are hitting.
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Old June 5, 2012, 03:43 PM   #45
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Is it even correct to say that clay shooters, and I suppose wing shooters which is something that I have zero experience with, point instead of aiming? If the gun fits and I mount it correctly it points where I look; meaning I don't even point but just look and if my head is locked on the stock the gun points where I look.
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Old June 5, 2012, 03:55 PM   #46
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So then, the guy in the video was "pointing", not aiming?
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Old June 5, 2012, 04:31 PM   #47
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"Whether you aim at a flying target or point at it, you will likely miss if you are talking about a target moving laterally to you."

Completely true, no arguing with it. The key words being "at it", with it being the laterally moving target. The gun has to be pointing at where the target will be when the pellets finally get there.

Back to the example of the garden hose. Have a child run across the yard from left to right. Assuming the kid isn't just 10 feet away, if you are pointing or aiming the hose at the child the water will always be behind because the target is moving. You have to aim ahead.
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Old June 6, 2012, 06:17 PM   #48
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This is teetering over The Abyss Of Closedness....
Haven't seen that one before, Dave, that's great!

I think what Amsdorf is getting at is that he's sick of hearing things like,"Get a shotgun, you don't even have to aim" when somebody asks about home defense. If you say you've never seen or heard that you're probably not being truthful. We all know about "pointing" a shotgun for clays. As for me, I'm not very good at it, due to cross-dominance, and inside a house if I have to shoot somebody (God forbid) and I just point it in their direction, I may or may not hit them. No such thing as "Can't miss" in HD distances. My 930 SPX has wonderful sights that excell in this type of instance, and I'll continue to aim until scads of practice and unique to cross-dominance experimentation leads me into the "just point it" club.
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Old June 6, 2012, 06:32 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OP
Call it whatever you want, you loveable knuckleheads are missing the point, entirely....

Hollywood has convinced people that a shotgun will work just fine simply by praying and spraying.

Call it what you want, "pointing" or "aiming"

You are missing the forest for the trees, bro
s.

Yeah, we get it, but we don't think you understand shotgunning. Of course, you have to be sure of your points, but rifles are aimed and shotguns are pointed, simply because on a standard shotgun you don't have a rear sight. The vast majority of shotguns are pointed, and stock fit is everything on a shotgun. If the stock doesn't fit, you're simply not going to be able to hit with it with any consistency.

My patrol shotgun is equipped with rifle sights, my sporting shotguns have only a mid and front bead. Two different arrangements for two different situations.
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Old June 6, 2012, 06:36 PM   #50
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I think what Amsdorf is getting at is that he's sick of hearing things like,"Get a shotgun, you don't even have to aim" when somebody asks about home defense. If you say you've never seen or heard that you're probably not being truthful. We all know about "pointing" a shotgun for clays. As for me, I'm not very good at it, due to cross-dominance, and inside a house if I have to shoot somebody (God forbid) and I just point it in their direction, I may or may not hit them. No such thing as "Can't miss" in HD distances. My 930 SPX has wonderful sights that excell in this type of instance, and I'll continue to aim until scads of practice and unique to cross-dominance experimentation leads me into the "just point it" club.


BINGO!!!!!

The video is about shooting a shotgun for home defense, not shooting at clay pigeons with bird shot loads.
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