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Old May 26, 2012, 01:14 PM   #1
S_Constitutionist
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.45ACP 200gr SWC issues

Hey folks,

I have always shot 230gr LRN seated to 1.270 which works very well. I want to try 200gr SWC to mix it up.

Using in-spec cases, I have to seat the bullet to 1.07" before it will drop in and out of the barrel and head space correctly. What the heck is going on?

I scrubbed and used a lead solvent on the barrel which helped a bit, but im still confused. At 1.15" the case shoulder overhangs a little more than 1/32" unless pushed in flush.

Lyman 49th claims that 1.235 is the minimum OAL, but another 200 gr SWC in the same manual lists 1.161" as minimum.

Others online seem to be running this bullet at 1.250" just fine. Is my barrel out of spec?

The gun in question is a 1911 (STI Spartan .45ACP) with 1500-2000 rounds through it. It is all stock.
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Old May 26, 2012, 01:28 PM   #2
Don P
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I'm not sure of being out of spec. My Springfield Mil -Spec I can load 230 gr. rn. to a max of 1.255 anything longer and I start to head space on the bullet.
Why not load a couple up and try them. See if the chamber from the mag and see how they shoot. Do you have or know someone with a chrono?
How about a couple of photos of you ammo as you describe it
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Old May 26, 2012, 01:36 PM   #3
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It isn't a headspace question or dirty chamber question but a ramp question. Most guns will run hardball ammo all day and all night but will not feed a SWC unless the ramp is polished and angled just right. Most competition guns and most new guns don't have that problem. You need a good 45 gunsmith to fix your problem.

The other potential problem is your magazines. Most of mine will feed anything but some will not present the SWC at the right angle and they will jam on me.
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Old May 26, 2012, 01:39 PM   #4
Don P
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Quote:
You need a good 45 gunsmith to fix your problem.
What does your response have to do with head spacing and OAL. The OP didn't complain about feeding issues just OAL

Quote:
Using in-spec cases, I have to seat the bullet to 1.07" before it will drop in and out of the barrel and head space correctly. What the heck is going on?
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Old May 26, 2012, 05:34 PM   #5
243winxb
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Some chambers need a .451" diameter bullet.
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Old May 26, 2012, 06:50 PM   #6
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Really strange that you have to use 1.07" for the rounds to chamber in your barrel. You don't say what SWC bullet your are using but all that I am familiar with should seat about 1.24-1.25" OAL and work fine. At 1.07" OAL I would think the bullet shoulder is well below the case mouth. Are you sure of the measurement ?
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Old May 26, 2012, 09:07 PM   #7
243winxb
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oops, double post

Last edited by 243winxb; May 26, 2012 at 09:13 PM.
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Old May 26, 2012, 09:11 PM   #8
243winxb
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This is a good method for setting a COL for a lswc bullet. http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=485594
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Old May 26, 2012, 09:45 PM   #9
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I load 200gr SWC to +/-1.250". About a thumbnail's thickness of the driving band is exposed above the case as is pictured above.

They work fine in my 1911's. I haven't found the need to drop one in the barrel to see where they land so I haven't. They don't work in my XD, but that doesn't have anything to do with headspace.

Forget the drop test and use a range test instead.
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Old May 26, 2012, 10:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
It isn't a headspace question or dirty chamber question but a ramp question. Most guns will run hardball ammo all day and all night but will not feed a SWC unless the ramp is polished and angled just right. Most competition guns and most new guns don't have that problem. You need a good 45 gunsmith to fix your problem.
Any 1911 I ever had that would run well, would run well with 200 grain SWC's of the H&G pattern, loaded to 1.250" and finished with a firm taper crimp. None of them required ramp work to get that load to feed. I couldn't tell you exactly how many 500 round boxes of that bullet I have run through 8-10 1911's, but it has to be around 20 of them. Essentially all of them were loaded to the above specs and if they didn't feed like butter I would have quit them long ago.

On the original question, the only barrels I've ever seen, in which the aforementioned load sat higher than the barrel hood, were those that were short chambered and needed a reamer run in them. Not saying that is precisely the case with the OP's barrel, just making an observation.
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Old May 26, 2012, 10:12 PM   #11
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I couldn't get those dang things to feed right and gave up on them. There are much nicer 200 gr boolits out there than those ancient SWC's. Like those Mihec 200 gr HP's. They feed like softball.
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Old May 27, 2012, 02:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Constitutionist
Others online seem to be running this bullet at 1.250" just fine. Is my barrel out of spec?

The gun in question is a 1911 (STI Spartan .45ACP) with 1500-2000 rounds through it. It is all stock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sport45
I load 200gr SWC to +/-1.250". About a thumbnail's thickness of the driving band is exposed above the case as is pictured above.
243winxb, nice picture.

Amount of "driving band" or bearing surface exposed above the case depends on the leade length or how soon the start of rifling is in your barrel. Most factory barrels will accommodate around 1/16-1/8" but some factory barrels won't.

My Sig 1911 barrel has very quick start of rifling with almost no leade (space the bullet jumps from case/chamber to the start of rifling) so typical 200 gr SWC bullet OAL of 1.25"-1.26" will hit the rifling. With Missouri 200 gr SWC (Bullseye #1/IDP #1) bullets, OAL must be less than 1.245" or the bullet shoulders will hit the start of rifling when fully chambered.


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Old May 27, 2012, 05:21 PM   #13
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I had a similar problems with a Rock Island 1911A1FS. Sent the barrel back & had it reamed. It handles any and all in spec .45 ACP loads now, including the H&G 200 at 1.250".
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Old May 27, 2012, 10:51 PM   #14
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Try pinching the crimp down to.469-.470.
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Old June 22, 2012, 06:46 PM   #15
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Just shot my first .45 LSWC and I love 'em! Cleanest hole I've ever seen.

S_Constitutionist: You've probably figured this out by now, but the Lyman manual does indeed list data for two 200 grain SWCs. They are different bullets. I did the same thing you did at first and was perplexed by the 1.161 OAL. I realized that if I tried to seat my bullet to 1.161, it would be well below the case mouth. I then realized I had the bullet with the single lube channel, not the one with two lube channels.

With that mystery solved, I loaded up 10 cases with 5.2 grains of 231. They passed the barrel check ok, but would not feed when cycling the slide by hand. As the chambered cartridge began to eject, it seemed to be hitting the ridge of the next round in the magazine. This stopped the slide in it's tracks about an inch into its backward travel. If I dropped the mag out of the pistol, the round would eject. Mag in, no eject.

I took everything to the range this morning and loaded the rounds into the mag and fired away. There were no ejection problems. I'm thinking that there was a lot more force against the slide after firing a round and this perhaps overcame the issue of the spent cartridge hitting the ridge of the next cartridge in the magazine.

I'm only assuming that this is what is happening and that actuating the slide by hand doesn't apply enough force to overcome what I think is happening.

Anyway, I love the LSCWs and am going to bump up the charge to 5.5 grains to see how they perform.
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