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Old May 25, 2012, 10:25 PM   #1
ElCid1756
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Firearm related injury, need help!

I need help figuring out what happened to my buddy while we were out shooting.
We were firing my Mosin Nagant and we were through about 30 rounds. He fired, and somehow this casing became stuck in his hand, and it went COMPLETELY THROUGH! The gun did not malfunction, I checked it over thoroughly and there are no cracks, dents, holes, or anything; plus the spent casing was still in the chamber when I began inspecting the weapon. As you can see from the pic, the casing is both chipped and melted. I tried looking for a bullet in the grass, but it was too dark, so I am trying in the morning. When he gets back from the hospital I will further examine it to see what happened. But for now, does anyone have any theories?
We were firing Russian 7.62x54R non-corrosive berdan primed ammunition that we bought this evening at Gander Mountain. It comes in a white box with no real distinguishing features; this is the first time I have shot this particular ammo.
Again, any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

Warning! Attached image contains blood/gore. Viewer discretion is advised.
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Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; May 26, 2012 at 01:15 PM. Reason: Warning
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Old May 25, 2012, 10:32 PM   #2
BloodOmen911
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My question is: Where in the hell did that casing come from??? That's insane! Some kind of one-in a-million chance ricochet accidents?
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Old May 25, 2012, 10:34 PM   #3
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Hmm... I've owned and shot a handful of Mosin Nagants and honestly without obvious serious malfunction of the gun itself I'm not sure HOW that would happen.

You say the injury is the actual casing itself penetrating THROUGH his hand? From one side of the hand to the other? Yet there is no obvious malfunction of the firearm itself and no clear damage to the gun? Even stranger yet - most Russian ammo is steel cased. This one looks like it might actually be brass...

Puzzling... befuddling... confounding... just plain confusing. I haven't got a clue but I hope your friend is alright.

All that aside I think someone out there might have something against your friend...
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Old May 25, 2012, 10:48 PM   #4
ElCid1756
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The only thing that I can think of that could have caused this is if he was holding a round in his hand while he was firing. Can something like that even happen? Maybe a defective primer ignited due to the pressure wave when he fired?
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Old May 25, 2012, 10:52 PM   #5
BloodOmen911
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I'm still certain it was a crazy ricochet accident. I've seen similar accidents when people shoot in rocky areas
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Old May 25, 2012, 10:59 PM   #6
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How can the casing be still in the chamber AND through his hand at the same time? I smell steer flatulence in the air.....
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Old May 25, 2012, 11:02 PM   #7
ElCid1756
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Thats just it though, beyond our target was an open, plowed field with dense woods about 1/2 a mile away. The injury happened instantly, so it couldn't have really been a ricochet. We were also picking up our spent casings as we shot, so it couldn't have been any of those.
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Old May 25, 2012, 11:04 PM   #8
ElCid1756
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@brmfan

I'm saying that the injury couldn't have been from the round he shot, since the casing was still in the chamber; ergo, it must have been caused by an external source...
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Old May 25, 2012, 11:08 PM   #9
BloodOmen911
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Hmm... I'm going to go ahead and blame the Soviets on this one not because your gun is Russian, just because those Soviets are always plottin' something!
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Old May 25, 2012, 11:28 PM   #10
brmfan
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That type of injury can be caused by only one thing... Chupacabra!
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Old May 25, 2012, 11:42 PM   #11
youngunz4life
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spock's theory on improbable actions do to process of elimination?

stranger things have happened.......there are innocent people in prison for life via very odd, improbable coincidences (as you know they make movies about it too lol)

shot from another rifle? I guarantee the 99.99% doubt in it but did you look to see if the manfacturer was the same ammo in case it was an accidental shot from someone else from pretty much anywhere with impeccable timing?
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Old May 26, 2012, 12:04 AM   #12
Bud Helms
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What ElCid said.

The question is, what caused the cartridge that was outside the chamber to cook off when the one that was chambered was fired.

Is it possible that the primer was somehow was struck by some part of the rifle during recoil if it was held in the support hand while firing?
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Old May 26, 2012, 12:18 AM   #13
ElCid1756
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Mystery solved.
He just got back from the hospital and it turns out that it was a ricochet.
It just expanded in such a way that it looked like a spent casing when covered in blood and sticking through flesh...
The jacket tore off and flew back 30ish yards and still went through his hand,
lucky it hit his hand instead of his face.
Anyway, thanks for your input and concern, looks like he might need surgery to repair some tendons
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Old May 26, 2012, 12:23 AM   #14
BloodOmen911
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HA, BloodOmen911, Private Investigator It's crazy how fast those ricochets happen! It seems almost instant.
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Old May 26, 2012, 01:11 AM   #15
JohnKSa
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Quote:
He just got back from the hospital and it turns out that it was a ricochet.
That had to be it. When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth.

With the case left in the chamber and the chamber uncompromised, the injury had to have resulted from a ricochet.
Quote:
Maybe a defective primer ignited due to the pressure wave when he fired?
So improbable as to be impossible. If that could happen, we'd hear about rounds in magazines going off when guns were fired. After all, the uppermost round in the magazine is in very close proximity to the round being fired. If a pressure wave could ignite a primer it would happen at least once in awhile to the top round in the mag.

By the way, in case it doesn't go without saying, you need to find out what caused the ricochet before you shoot there again. The injury appears to be pretty severe, but it could have been much worse.
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Old May 26, 2012, 01:09 PM   #16
Discern
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Sounds like you need to shoot at a place that has a backstop. A field can have rocks, a sweep/shovel from a cultivator or other hard objects. Also sounds like you were shooting in low light conditions. Hard to know if a person would be walking in that plowed field or woods. Just some things to consider.
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Old May 27, 2012, 01:33 AM   #17
Eagleks
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I never thought about richochets where I was shooting, the chances of one was extremely extremely slim ...... until one day one went flying literally right by and slightly kissed my ear as it went by ..... that was a shock and gave me a lot of pause. A LOT ... of pause.

Glad it was his hand, and not worse than it already was.
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Old June 8, 2012, 08:35 PM   #18
toggy
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Wow, I was just googling the Russian 7.62x54R non-corrosive berdan primed ammunition in a white box that I bought this evening at Gander Mountain. This page is where I ended up. Jeez.
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Old June 8, 2012, 09:10 PM   #19
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I was gonna reply that that material looked exactly like the jackets on some steel core ammo from my mosin that I have examined in the dirt. But the mystery is solved
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Old June 8, 2012, 10:03 PM   #20
FoghornLeghorn
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Quote:
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth.
So, you gonna give Arther Conan Doyle credit for that quote?
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Old June 8, 2012, 10:11 PM   #21
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Why would he? Doyle gave credit to Occam.

(Occam's Razor)
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Old June 8, 2012, 10:14 PM   #22
JohnKSa
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Figured it was common knowledge... You are correct, it's a quote from Sherlock Holmes--used in more than one of the stories, IIRC.
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Old June 10, 2012, 09:50 PM   #23
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some kind of wierd ricochet dude....how far away was the target/backstop/whatever you were shooting at?
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