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Old May 23, 2012, 09:49 PM   #1
DividedWeFall
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Federal Gun Free School Zones Act

Everyone who owns guns should get involved in pressing for changes on this law. It is a noose that is readily available to law enforcement that could be put around any gun owners neck at any time. It is absurd to have a law that can cause someone to spend 5 years in Federal prison who is in trouble with the law exclusively because of this and otherwise a law abiding citizen.

This is a miscarriage of the law and justice.

Do not ignore this. Take it upon yourself to get involved. Ignore ANYONE who is not wise enough to understand this as they will not do your jail time or carry the burden of a conviction for you. Regardless of how remote the "chances" of any one person being affected by this, it is something that ALL gun owners and ALL US citizens should understand is in direct conflict with our 2nd amendment rights.

Gun ownership is not a "privilege". It is a Constitutional right. Fight for it or lose it.

Last edited by DividedWeFall; May 23, 2012 at 09:58 PM.
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Old May 23, 2012, 11:39 PM   #2
kilimanjaro
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Don't the laws exempt CCW holders?
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Old May 23, 2012, 11:52 PM   #3
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Yes, but in Constitutional Carry states like mine that doesn't help. We ALMOST had a bill passed to challenge it, but someone in Phoenix wet their pants and it died.
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Old May 24, 2012, 12:35 AM   #4
Tom Servo
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Quote:
Don't the laws exempt CCW holders?
Only within your home state, and only with a permit issued by that state. There are a couple of other wrinkles as well.

There was a bill submitted to Congress this last session to change it, but it appears to be dead.
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Old May 24, 2012, 12:42 AM   #5
egor20
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Not sure where you live, but in Virgina we have:

School property/school functions (School busses are school property) unless gun is unloaded, in an enclosed container (but NOT in the glove box or console) and in the vehicle. A car's trunk is considered an enclosed container. However, a concealed handgun permit holder can have a loaded, concealed handgun in the vehicle while in the school parking lot, traffic circle, etc. The concealed handgun and the permit holder must stay in the vehicle. Firearms are not banned from property open to the public where a school function is being held unless that property is being used exclusively for the school function. Violation of this statute is a felony. § 18.2-308.1

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-308.1
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Old May 24, 2012, 01:31 AM   #6
Alaska444
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Just one more reason that the gun rights laws need to be at the state level, not at the Federal level. The gun free zones rendered unloaded open carry in CA useless before Jerry signed that "right" away a few months ago. It is a huge issue that needs to stay at the state levels.
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Old May 24, 2012, 11:40 AM   #7
Al Norris
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Just a reminder, laws like the GFSZ act will not be able to be effectively challenged until after it is established that we have the right to carry in public spaces.
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Old May 24, 2012, 12:06 PM   #8
Patriot86
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Al makes a very good point, at the state level in many states you still have highly restrictive processes to issue CCW permits that are de-facto bans on CCW.

On the Federal Level you still have Judges and Politicians who do not believe in ANY form of right to keep and bear arms; and even more who do not believe in the right to carry a firearm outside of the house. GFSZ is on the list but until you have firmly and without a question of a doubt established the right to keep and bear arms in public this is sort of a moot point.
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Old May 24, 2012, 12:31 PM   #9
thallub
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Enforcement of the gun free school zones act is mostly left up to the states.

Here in OK high school students are allowed to have long guns in their vehicles on school grounds so long as the gun is cased and out of sight.

http://public.esquireempire.com/Poss...t-tit-21-12801

Quote:
C. Firearms and weapons are allowed on school property and deemed not in violation of subsection A of this section as follows:

A gun or knife designed for hunting or fishing purposes kept in a privately owned vehicle and properly displayed or stored as required by law, or a handgun carried in a vehicle pursuant to a valid handgun license authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, provided such vehicle containing said gun or knife is driven onto school property only to transport a student to and from school and such vehicle does not remain unattended on school property;
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Old May 24, 2012, 03:20 PM   #10
dogtown tom
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Quote:
thallub Enforcement of the gun free school zones act is mostly left up to the states.
Being that the GFSZ Act is Federal law, states don't enforce it unless they have state law that mirrors it.

The GFSZ Act is a "add on" in nearly all cases.......local cops bust a drug dealer in a school zone and can notify the Feds if he has a firearm. Feds can then file charges if they want.
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Old May 24, 2012, 05:12 PM   #11
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The door is still open to : Cops can’t find a reason for arrest under State law, so they shuffle you over to the feds. They can hold you on a federal charge even without a state law mirroring federal law.

A complaint to feds by a citizen can result in feds directly+ checking on you too. A citizen may even be able to hold you until feds get there … kinda hard to do and really tricky, but a possibility.
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Old May 30, 2012, 07:56 AM   #12
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State laws are the answer, along with rational, properly trained police. I'm a long-serving cop, currently assigned as a resource officer at a high school. In my home state, Louisiana, firearms possession is a constitutional right and we're all trained in that. Further, state law says that your vehicle is an extension of your home, so whatever is legal at home is legal in your car.

We also have a law that prohibits carrying a gun on school grounds, but the state constitution trumps that law, so I don't care how many guns are in the vehicles at my campus; it simply isn't any of my business. As long as they stay in the vehicle, there is no problem. If someone starts waving a gun around the parking lot, we may have a chat, but as long as it's in the car, no problem.

I don't believe that the FedGov has any business making laws that the states can handle, but even that opinion is a double-edged sword.
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Old May 30, 2012, 08:39 AM   #13
Rifleman1776
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One of the most ridiculous laws ever.
In any rural area in any state you will find pick-up trucks waiting to pick up kids after school. Half of these trucks have rear window racks with guns in them. My truck had a rack but mounted below the window.
I used to do Revolutionary Rifleman presentations in local schools. I did this often over the years until this law came along. Then no more rifle, no more presentations.
Later, my State Leg., in it's wisdom, passed a law allowing guns in schools for Civil War presentations. I was still prohibited because I had my Rev. period flintlock rifle. 'splain me the sense of that.
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Old May 30, 2012, 08:44 AM   #14
Don P
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Quote:
State laws are the answer, along with rational, properly trained police
The problem with the above statement is the training part. here in FLA and in my home county, question posed to 3 deputy sheriffs and 3 different answers about the legality of open carry to and from the shooting range.
One was unsure, one said he would arrest no questions asked, one would confiscate the gun.
FLA law states open carry is legal to and from the range in a private conveyance( your vehicle). Go figure.
Now to the post when FLA wrote there CCW laws they had as a crime to be within the 1,000 mark of a school with a ccw. They realized that if a person that lived across the street for a school had a ccw the could not legally leave there home with the gun
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Old May 30, 2012, 11:28 AM   #15
PawPaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don P
The problem with the above statement is the training part. here in FLA and in my home county, question posed to 3 deputy sheriffs and 3 different answers about the legality of open carry to and from the shooting range.
I can empathize with you, Don, but if you're asking one question and getting three different answers, I'd suspect that the training of those deputies is not up to par.

Quote:
FLA law states open carry is legal to and from the range in a private conveyance( your vehicle).
If that's the law, then that's the law and the deputies should be trained in the law. I'd make a call to the department training officer and discuss that with him. If that didn't help, I'd go talk to the Sheriff Himself. There is no reason to get three different answers to the same question.
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Old May 30, 2012, 11:49 AM   #16
aarondhgraham
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Hello thallub,,,

Quote:
Here in OK high school students are allowed to have long guns in their vehicles on school grounds so long as the gun is cased and out of sight.
I'm fairly certain you are misinterpreting the law here,,,
The clause was intended to allow parents and caregivers the ability,,,
To drive onto school property while armed to drop off or pick up their children.

Quote:
A gun or knife designed for hunting or fishing purposes kept in a privately owned vehicle and properly displayed or stored as required by law, or a handgun carried in a vehicle pursuant to a valid handgun license authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, provided such vehicle containing said gun or knife is driven onto school property only to transport a student to and from school and such vehicle does not remain unattended on school property;
Students can not park their cars on school property if a weapon is stored in it.

The only exception I know of is for adult students at Career Tech Centers (who have a CWL) may store their handgun in their car while attending classes.

Aarond

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Last edited by aarondhgraham; May 30, 2012 at 12:18 PM.
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Old May 30, 2012, 07:15 PM   #17
thallub
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Quote:
Students can not park their cars on school property if a weapon is stored in it.
Tell that to the numerous high schools guys who have guns in their trucks at school and go hunting when classes are over.
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Old May 31, 2012, 08:17 AM   #18
aarondhgraham
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Okay,,,

It doesn't matter that they are doing it,,,
It's still not legal.

Quote:
Tell that to the numerous high schools guys who have guns in their trucks at school and go hunting when classes are over.
If I were the CSO at their schools I would tell them,,,
And possibly take away their ability to hunt every again,,,
You posted the statute yourself that states the only legal exceptions.

Back in 1967-68 I was one of the kids who kept a rifle in the car,,,
The early morning rabbit hunts were very popular,,,
But this is the 21st century with different laws.

What they are doing is committing a felony,,,
Which can permanently jeopardize their 2nd amendment rights.

Aarond

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Old May 31, 2012, 08:27 AM   #19
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Lots of people go to jail for doing just one bad thing but they were otherwise law abiding citizens. It's like saying they never did anything immoral.
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