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Old May 20, 2012, 12:46 PM   #1
rebs
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H335 or Varget for 223

For you guys that have loaded with both powders, which one gave you the best accuracy in your AR 15 ?

I have found 24.5 grains of H335 is the most accurate for H335 powder and haven't yet tried Varget. Is Varget worth a try ?
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Old May 20, 2012, 12:58 PM   #2
IllinoisCoyoteHunter
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Depends on the bullet...and what your gun likes. All rifles are different.
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Old May 20, 2012, 01:05 PM   #3
DeadCenter
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I second what coyote hunter said, I load with both H335 and Varget for 3 different ARs, for example, H335 and Midway 55gr Dogtowns are most accurate and Varget with Hornady 55gr FMJs are a couple combinations that work best for me.
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Old May 20, 2012, 04:07 PM   #4
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H335 is a ball powder and meters easily, Varget is a stick powder and "chops" grains when metered. If you use a progressive press this would matter.

1). Varget, shoots well in all temps and does not change. Meters with dificulties, but shoots great. 40-75 grain loads are appropriate.

2). H335 is a great ball powder that does change poi with temps. H335 is also used in 40-69 grain loads very well.

If you are a "high volume" shooter then you would like both as they both shoot very accurate loads.

Lake city brass
55 Hornady V-max
25.5 Grains of varget
450 CCI primers or 7 1/2's

223 1-9 twist bolt or AR-15
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Old May 20, 2012, 04:17 PM   #5
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I find both hard to ignite ball powders and stick powders in Varget's burn rate range work best with heavier bullets, like 69 grain match bullets and up. Varget's temperature insensitivity seems to be very good in .308 and .30-06, but I don't find it any better than any other stick in .223. Don't know why, but am working on a theory.

For 50 and 55 grain bullets, though it costs you some velocity and so is best at shorter ranges, IMR 4198 can turn in some tiny groups. Reloader 10X seems to get most of the velocity of cases packed with slower powders and also turns in some very small groups. I avoid the ball powders until I get to 62 grains and up because of the secondary spikes observed in some instances with them combined with the lighter weights (see second half of this page).
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Old May 20, 2012, 05:46 PM   #6
rebs
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Quote:
Depends on the bullet...and what your gun likes. All rifles are different.
I am shooting Hornady 55 gr fmjbt's in a 16" 1 in 8 twist barrel. This gun seems to like 24.5 gr H335 with the Hornady bullets. Groups under 1" at 100 yds.
I am curious what Varget will do in the same gun and bullet ?
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Old May 20, 2012, 07:37 PM   #7
DeadCenter
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I couldn't get 55gr Hornady FMJBT to group under about 2" with H335. I tried 23.5 - 25.3 gr of H335, but with ~26gr of Varget I can get about a 1" group in a 14.5" 1:8 barrel, this is a compressed load. I have recently been playing with the 53gr V-MAX and so for the best group I've got was with 25gr H335, I've tried Varget and 4198, but H335 has been giving me my best results. These loads have been tested in a 20" 1:12. I just received my order to 55gr Z-MAX I am anxious to try. They are a flat based like the dogtowns so expecting good results from them.
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Old May 20, 2012, 08:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Depends on the bullet...and what your gun likes. All rifles are different.
Yup.

If there were a "best" powder for every caliber, there would not be a gazillion powder choices....

Depends on the harmonics of your barrel, bullet weight/twist...

We found H335 did not shoot well at all with any weight bullet from my son's Rem. 700- Varget would one-hole them.

Start with one or the other, if you don't get satisfactory results, keep on tryin'... that's what load workup is all about.
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Old May 20, 2012, 09:10 PM   #9
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Nick, I never heard of the poi using Varget changing with temps. The post was about H335 and Varget for choices, but if I had only one powder to use for the .223 it would be IMR8208. Nick have you found any temp swings with 8208?
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Old May 20, 2012, 10:38 PM   #10
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I find I get excellent results in my AR 1:9 with Varget. H335 give me good results in my 223 bolt gun, but not so much in my AR.
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Old May 20, 2012, 10:42 PM   #11
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I wouldn't bother with Varget for lightweight bullets under 65 grains. A stick powder with Varget's burn rate is better suited to heavier pills. Stick with what you have unless you want to change.

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Old May 21, 2012, 08:41 PM   #12
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Varget and 8208 XBR (and H4350 that I use) are all "extreme" powders and are absolutely unaffected by temperatures. That's why I use them...
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Old May 21, 2012, 11:15 PM   #13
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Varget is usable in 223 but is really on the slow side for this cartridge. Varget works in a wide range of cartridges but isn't the best for 223, especially with lighter bullets, as others have noted. If you want to try one of Hodgdon's Extreme Extruded powders in 223 try H322 or Benchmark. I haven't tried either yet but their burn rates are more suitable for 223 than Varget. H322 is supposed to be one of the best in this caliber. Don't worry about cutting granules or weighing every charge. I've gotten very low extreme spreads and SDs using thrown charges from my Uniflow with Varget in 7mm-08. I've also gotten outstanding results with thrown charges with N110, N350, N340 and N320, all extruded powders. H322 and Benchmark are advertised as fine, i.e. small grained, powders. They should throw from a powder measure very consistently. And as with all of their Extreme powders they are much less sensitive to temperature variations.
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Old May 22, 2012, 08:10 AM   #14
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I agree with mmb713.

I find Varget a bit too slow for a 24 inch barrel .223 CZ 527 that has a 1:9 twist.

H335 is a top performer along with H4895.
H322 is also a good powder but hasn't been able to match the accuracy of either H335 or H4895.

Of my top 25 loads with my CZ, 7 are with H335 and 18 are with H4895. As of last weekend, the top 25 loads average 0.437 with a total of 246 measured groups at 100 yards with bullet weights ranging from 45 to 63 grains.

But of the top 5 that average 0.395 with 104 groups and 3 loads including the two most accurate are with H335. Bullet weights include 45, 52 and 55 grain bullets.

Your results will depend upon your stock/barrel combination but I think that powders in the speed range of H335 are more suited to the .223 at weights under 69 grains.
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Old May 25, 2012, 12:29 AM   #15
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I get about 1.5-2'' groups out of my mini-14 using H335 powder and Hornady 55gr fmj bullets. I usually buy tac powder but wanted to try H335 and I like the accuracy and the powder burns very clean. I will probably switch back to Tac because it works better with heavier bullets than H335.
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Old May 25, 2012, 05:26 AM   #16
rebs
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Quote:
I couldn't get 55gr Hornady FMJBT to group under about 2" with H335. I tried 23.5 - 25.3 gr of H335, but with ~26gr of Varget I can get about a 1" group in a 14.5" 1:8 barrel, this is a compressed load. I have recently been playing with the 53gr V-MAX and so for the best group I've got was with 25gr H335, I've tried Varget and 4198, but H335 has been giving me my best results. These loads have been tested in a 20" 1:12. I just received my order to 55gr Z-MAX I am anxious to try. They are a flat based like the dogtowns so expecting good results from them.
My groups are under 1 inch @ 100 yds with Hornady 55 gr fmjbt bullets. I see from your post that you prefer the flat base bullets. I may have to try a box since I have never tried the flat base.
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Old May 25, 2012, 07:09 AM   #17
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I like Varget alot, works with a lot of calibers so it's good to have some on hand. For 223 I've really come to love Benchmark. Meters like a dream, burns clean, and is less temperature sensitive than H335. I've been using Benchmark with 308 and 30-06 and have gotten excellent results. It's my go to powder for 223.
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Old May 25, 2012, 08:28 AM   #18
rebs
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maybe I should have bought benchmark instead of Varget.
Anyone want to trade a pound ?
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Old May 25, 2012, 11:55 AM   #19
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I think you should try it- our results with Varget were very good...

Despite all the nay-saying here, MANY use it with excellent results. Here's just one thread from a precision shooting forum, do a search there, many more...

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...Number=1614159
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Old May 25, 2012, 12:14 PM   #20
rebs
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Quote:
I think you should try it- our results with Varget were very good...

Despite all the nay-saying here, MANY use it with excellent results. Here's just one thread from a precision shooting forum, do a search there, many more...

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...Number=1614159
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I just read this and it makes sense to me, thanks for posting it.
I will use the pound of Varget I have and see what happens accuracy wise and how it compares to the H335 that I use and like.
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Old May 26, 2012, 08:16 AM   #21
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With bullets in the 52 - 55 grain range I've had far better results with H335 and the metering is very precise. Others I use include N133 , Benchmark and H322. Benchmark and H322 have also turned in some of my best accuracy results with the heavier 69 Sierra.
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Old May 26, 2012, 04:29 PM   #22
jolly roger
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I find H335 works best with 55 grain bullets and Varget with 69 grain.
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