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Old May 14, 2012, 02:03 PM   #1
Noreaster
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G19 vs G17 for IDPA

Newbie here for IDPA. I shot a meet with my duty gun, G22, and I had a great time. I'm hooked. I'm gearing up to go every month but I want to go to 9mm for ammo cost. I was going to go with a G17 but found a great deal on a Gen4 G19. Considering IDPA shooting distances and it's only a ten round mag count what do guys think about using a G19? I want to stay with a Glock pistol because it's what I carry as an LEO.
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Old May 14, 2012, 02:17 PM   #2
Jim Watson
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I think a G17 would have an advantage, a G34 better yet with full size grips and longer sight radius.

The only people I see shooting IDPA with things like G19 are those who are more interested in exercising their defense or duty weapons than they are in running up a good score.

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Old May 14, 2012, 02:35 PM   #3
Ambishot
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To be honest it depends on what you're looking to get out of IDPA. If you're looking for improving your gun handling skills and defensive shooting technique, then I would recommend shooting what you carry for duty or something similar. Since you already carry a G22 for duty, it makes sense for you to use a G17 for IDPA, since it is the exact same dimension, excluding the caliber change.

If you're looking into the gaming aspect of IDPA, then the G34 is the better choice as it has some added features. i.e. lighter trigger, longer sight radius etc.

If you're really leaning towards the G19, then go for it. I compete with a gen 3 19 and don't have any problems with the 10 round limit. You'll have that limitation no matter what gun you choose. I have also seen safety officers and some shooters use the G26/27 as well.


Also, welcome to the sport! It's a great past time.

Last edited by Ambishot; May 14, 2012 at 02:36 PM. Reason: more info
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Old May 14, 2012, 02:45 PM   #4
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Get the gun you want more, that's my advice. Years of competition are going to outweigh any short term savings on getting a G19 if you really want a G17. I'm not saying get the G17 though, just the one you want more.

Also the thing that sometimes goes unsaid when discussing gear online is that the best shooter still wins even if he shoots a slightly "disadvantaged" gun.
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Old May 14, 2012, 03:03 PM   #5
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Thanks for the advice. I'm going to hold off and wait for a G17. Can't wait for the next shoot.
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Old May 15, 2012, 05:52 PM   #6
theycallmeingot
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A lot of people shoot midsize guns in IDPA because of the perceived notion that you're practicing for actual scenarios that might arise where you need to defend yourself, thus they shoot the gun they would most likely be carrying on them. If you want to learn how to defend yourself, IDPA won't teach you that, so there is really no point in shooting your actual CCW gun in the match, imo.

IDPA is every bit as much of a game as USPSA is, just with different rules. With that in mind, if you're wanting to shoot it for the fun/competition value, I would shoot the most "gamey" gun I could get my hands on. a G34. But the G17 will be just fine. If I already owned the G19 i would definitely shoot it in IDPA. but since you're buying a gun "for" idpa, personally i'd go with the G17.

Just my .02.

Also, what Adamantium said about the best shooter, and disadvantaged gear is absolutely true. You may even find you have more fun doing well with the so called "disadvantaged" G19. no one will be surprised if you were to do well with a G34.
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Old May 20, 2012, 08:51 AM   #7
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Awesome! I'm starting soon enough. Got me a Glock 34 for competition...Seemed most practical for that.

However, I will also use my SIG P226 or PX4 Storm. I carry the SIG a lot...
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Old May 20, 2012, 09:03 AM   #8
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They cancelled our IDPA this am due to a lack of safety officers. I was very dissappointed. It is my one true once a month "outlet". I shoot a 17 in IDPA, but carry a 26. I have often thought about using the 26 for the 'shoot what you carry perspective', but in all reality I don't want my scores to suffer!!!!
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Old May 21, 2012, 11:16 AM   #9
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I shelved my G19 after my first IDPA match. The 4" barrel just doesnt do the trick on the 25+ yard bays.

I waited and waited and found a SA 1911 9mm.

I would get a G34 or G35 all day OR an XDM 5.25 depending on your state.

As much as I like my 1911 9mm, I havent shot it enough to get used to disengaging the safety out of the holster.
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Old May 21, 2012, 05:24 PM   #10
Glenn E. Meyer
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Since I carry 19 - I shoot it most. Yes, I know IDPA is not training. But I've done a lot of that, so I like the trigger time with one of my carry guns.

I also rotate in my 1911, which I like or 642 for grins.

Since I don't have ambitions to win - it's just fun and a game with some drawing and trigger practice.
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Old May 21, 2012, 07:12 PM   #11
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It always confuses me a bit when people say "IDPA is not training."

It may not be (ok, it isn't) formal training, with an instructor helping improve techniques, awareness, etc. It isn't FOF training, as the targets don't shoot back.

But it is practice, and trigger time; and more importantly it's practice that gives immediate feedback with regard to one's ability to hit what one aims at, quickly.

So, it can be training, depending on whether one tries to learn anything from it.

In that sense, everything is training. (Then again, I practice opening doors and starting my chainsaw by rotating my center, not flexing or extending my arm - when feasible - to train at applying body mass in mundane applications. Does wonders for applying that force on the mat...)

Edit: How this relates to the OP's question - I would use my carry platform (or similar) to maximize my trigger time under some degree of stress with the weapon; I'm not that worried about winning (and frankly, I'm a long way from winning at my club; I'm not that fast - though I usually take 1st or 2nd for total accuracy) but am more concerned with being effective with my carry weapon(s).

I have used match results to compare my different platforms, and see which I shoot best in a variety of conditions. So I guess I view IDPA as either practice, or pre-season, depending on how you look at it.

Last edited by MLeake; May 21, 2012 at 07:18 PM.
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Old May 22, 2012, 06:19 AM   #12
iblong
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Everyone is different,Im in my 3rd season of IDPA and have found that the only advantage of the longer barrels is on the long shots and there is'nt many
of those.I have a 19,17 and 34 my best scores are with my 19,Im faster out of the holster and on my transisions with it.If I slow down just a fraction on the long shots my hits are on par with the 34.I think if you choose to be good with what you choose to shoot you will be.Just my two cents.That said
I moved to a CZ75b this year for ssp and after 3 seasons of Glock I made expert last weekend with the Cz go figure.
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Old May 22, 2012, 07:22 PM   #13
theycallmeingot
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MLeake,

It's not that IDPA is not good practice for using a firearm in general. Any trigger time is good trigger time, and the more trigger time you have the better chance you'll have of getting off successful shots in a high stress self defense situation.

Where I take issue is with other aspects of the sport that were designed that way under the false implication that the sport would be primarily "defense" related. can't drop mags with rounds in them, even (especially) if it's advantageous to do so. Or that IDPA is "better" defense training than any other shooting game.

While operating under the illusion that they are shooting by rules and equipment that is "practical" to a defense situation, they don't allow open guns with compensators and red dots. I can understand that. But they allow g34s with 5"+ slides, because it's practical to conceal and carry such a large gun? And since that gun is allowed, you are disadvantaged to use a G17 or G19, which really ARE practical to carry. If they allow "gamey" guns such as a g34, then the other rules that are meant to keep the "game" aspect out of it are pretty much pointless. IMO, IDPA should be truelly concealable guns, only. That people would ACTUALLY conceal. not with some flimsy cover garment that only covers up the gun unless you bend over to tie your shoe or reach up to get something off a high shelf.

Set up an IDPA course. Have an IDPA master shooter run the course by IDPA rules. Let a USPSA GM run the same course with the same gun by USPSA rules and see who has the faster time. Is neutralizing bad guys in the quickest way possible not "practical"? or is having to run your gun dry before you can reload, even though you can see 5 more guys around the other side of the barricade, more practical?

rant off.
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Old May 22, 2012, 08:08 PM   #14
iamdb
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I disagree that it's not training. Most gun ranges don't let you practice drawing from a holster on a hot range. Also, most ranges don't allow you to move while shooting, or provide you with an oppertunity to think out strategy while under pressure. Training is practice with intent to achieve something. Instruction is not training. Just because there are some stupid rules about equipment, it doesn't negate any training benefit you get.
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Old May 22, 2012, 08:13 PM   #15
theycallmeingot
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Quote:
or provide you with an oppertunity to think out strategy while under pressure
there is very little room for this in IDPA, which is one of my larger gripes. they have the power to tell you how, when, and in what order to engage targets. a freestyle type of play would be much more conducive to proper "training."
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Old May 22, 2012, 08:27 PM   #16
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Not at my range. They simply read the CoF verbatim and then you go. It leads to a lot of procedurals but we keep it by Sanctioned match rules. There are no walk throughs or explainations.
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Old May 22, 2012, 08:32 PM   #17
theycallmeingot
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i refer to your stage design in the other thread to illustrate what i'm talking about. the technique you lay out is a good one for the situation. but the thinking part is done for the shooter. better "training" would be for the shooter to have to conclude on his own whether to shoot while moving, or to stop and shoot.

not downing your stage design at all. just referencing it and how it illustrates idpa rules. i also don't hate idpa. only the attitude that its rules are properly designed for defense training, when in reality, imo it is just a game like any other action pistol game.
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Old May 22, 2012, 08:40 PM   #18
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I agree, but my stage was designed to just test a certain skillset. We do alot of building clearing and multiple building stages which is all strategy. They are usually blind stages so only one shooter at a time goes into the bay. Everyone else has to wait behind a berm. This weekend we had a 2 building and an alley on one stage. you could go to either building first and clear it then going to the other building engage the guy in the alley clear the second building then engage another guy in the alley. As long as you didn't expose your self you could go where you wanted.
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Old May 23, 2012, 07:34 AM   #19
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Quote:
Quote:
or provide you with an oppertunity to think out strategy while under pressure

there is very little room for this in IDPA, which is one of my larger gripes.
There's often more room for creativity than most realize. A friend of mine is a Distinguished Master and one of the best gamers in the sport. I'm often amazed at how creatively (and fast) he'll shoot stage I thought had zero room for creativity. He knows the rules inside and out, understands cover lines better than anyone else I know, and listens to what's said, and more importantly, what's not said during the stage brief.
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Old May 25, 2012, 02:19 PM   #20
Noreaster
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My G17 should be in next week. With all the bad reviews on the newer Glock 9s I hope it functions ok. I have a few boxes of Win 147 grain to break it in and try it out.
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Old May 25, 2012, 04:49 PM   #21
otasan
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Go with the g17

It is a better gun. Two more rounds, half-inch longer sight radius.
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Old May 25, 2012, 04:59 PM   #22
Strafer Gott
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Glock cherry boy

Just a quick question, would the 17L be gaming it too much? I've handled one, and I really like the fit, and also the sight radius. I've never shot a Glock,
but this one sort of works with what eyesight I have left.
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Old May 26, 2012, 01:18 AM   #23
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Having shot both the G17 and the G19, I have to say that while I KNOW the differences between the two theoretically favor the G17, in practice I can't really tell a difference.

I'd say pick the one that fits you best. My wife has been competing in GSSF (admittedly not the same as an IDPA match--and I'm not claiming otherwise) using one of my G17 pistols but recently got a Gen4 G19 because she said it fit her hand better. She shot a personal best in the first GSSF match she used the G19 in. For her, the small benefits of a slightly longer sight radius and a little more weight didn't help her as much as a gun that fit her well.
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Old May 28, 2012, 09:50 AM   #24
otasan
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G17 for sure

The longer sight radius works for me.
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Old May 29, 2012, 09:26 AM   #25
Noreaster
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I bought a G17. It should be in this week. Now I need mags and a bulk ammo purchase!!!
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