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Old May 12, 2012, 05:27 AM   #1
1911Alaska
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German police only used 85 bullets last year

Interesting article I just read.
http://now.msn.com/now/0511-german-police-bullets.aspx

Why do you guys think this is? Especially compared to us in America.

I have never been to Germany. I am sure the culture is much different there than it is here, but only 85 bullets for a hole country seems extremely low to me.
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Old May 12, 2012, 05:57 AM   #2
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I lived in Germany for nearly two years and my brother and sister-in-law are there now, in Stuttgart. In September my daughter will be moving there, which means we'll probably go visit next year. Our in-laws living in Germany was the excuse to go the U.K. last year.

Germany has a reputation for being particularly strict with respect to laws. The U.S., on the other hand, seems to have more things that are illegal and enforcement can appear to be uneven, unfair and unpredictible. Germany has high speed limits but don't even think of breaking any traffic rules. The drinking age is lower there, the age to get a driving license is higher. You even have to get a German driver's license if you're an American serviceman or dependent, at least if you are going to drive. And it's a difficult test, I understand.

There is a hunting tradition in Germany, especially in the southern part of the country, which at one time even carried over into the army. And just like you would expect, getting permits and licenses isn't easy. But there is still hunting in the U.K., too.

More Americans, myself included, are descended from German immigrants than from any other country, supposedly, and an American could even feel at home there. There is a strong folk (volk) tradition there, too, and American country & western music even has some popularity--sung in German (Auf der Autobahn).

At the moment, at least, it is a reasonably stable country, mostly due to a prosperous economy, which probably accounts for more of the peaceful nature of the country than anything else. But maybe American policemen are more likely to shoot first.

The country is not without problems relating to foreigners. Americans sometimes imagine that the U.S. is the only place anyone would ever move to, which is a false idea. No one in their right mind would come here anymore looking for work. France also has problems with immigrants but in both of those cases, with a different background, the problems are mostly of their own making. Germany invited foreign workers to come there decades ago. France allowed immigration from their former colonies, same as the U.K. and the U.S. The country is also has strong regional differences, just like in the U.K. and the U.S., and there is just as much differences in the language.

Overall, it's a nice place and I wouldn't mind living there but it's expensive. But I'm happy where I am. Besides, I buy my jodel and accordian music from Austria anyway. Jodeln ist cool but it drives my wife crazy.
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Old May 12, 2012, 10:09 AM   #3
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I spent a total of 3.5 years in Germany. It really is a lovely country. I would definitely go back if given the chance.

I think for the most part, the culture respects the law there. And the law is clear and strict.

For example- there are some areas of the Autobahn that has no speed limit. You can go as fast as the mechanical limits of your vehicle. However, you cannot ride the left lane unless you are passing and if someone is faster than you, you move to the slower lane. There are no traffic cops to enforce this, it is just done. Amazing what it does for traffic.
If you do decide to speed where there is a speed limit, a police officer will not pull you over. Instead you will get caught by the many traffic cameras they have in place. Some are there in permanent areas and some are mobile, set up as a trash can or in a car parked next to the road. You will receive the ticket via mail with the speed you were travelling and a very good picture of your license plate and the driver.

The police also does not tolerate any behavior that disrespects their authority. For example - they have the right to take your blood for alcohol test. If you do not consent, they will take it from you in the manner they see fit.

I don't remember much crime in the news during my time there. Most of the blotter I read were of "US Servicemen". The few I have seen that got out of line were quickly taken into custody and were dealt with force if they resisted (think half a dozen policemen subduing one individual).

Overall, the law will leave you alone. Just don't break any of it.
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Old May 12, 2012, 10:46 AM   #4
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I would also add that there is a seemingly strong sense of civic responsibility. I get a feeling that their people are more considerate, too.

The UK has lost that: there the mentality has been becoming much more selfish over the last 20 or so years, especially in the urban areas: such a shame...

In France, a little like in the Mediterranean countries, they are more laid back and see rules and regs as quite "elastic" in their interpretation.
Nice to see they don't take life to seriously but at the same time frustrating when some don't take others into account. Also definitely more so in cities.

How does this equate to 84 bullets fire in anger? No idea.

I suppose the sorts of situations where lethal force is needed don't come up very often, and/or the police don't resort to lethal force quite so quickly...
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Old May 12, 2012, 10:55 AM   #5
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I'm pretty sure that German police doesn't have to deal with all of the gangs that unfortunately the police have to deal with in this country.
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Old May 12, 2012, 10:56 AM   #6
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They're called cartridges, not bullets.. Stop regurgitating what the MSM calls loaded ammunition
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Old May 12, 2012, 12:05 PM   #7
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"They're called cartridges, not bullets.. Stop regurgitating what the MSM calls loaded ammunition"
**MSN
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Old May 12, 2012, 12:42 PM   #8
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Yup

"Why do you guys think this is?"

It's probably because the poor policeman who fires his gun will have to fill enough paperwork to keep him busy for the next ten years.

Seriously, I believe that German culture respects the laws and their authorities who enforce them - not like some other countries.
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Old May 12, 2012, 12:42 PM   #9
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German police are not contrained by all our laws... If they want to work you over they have no such thing as police brutality... In other words its not wise to mess with them.

I spent 6+ years in Germany and I had the drivers license and lived on the economy.... Germany expects certain things of people that live there....They didnt outlaw freedom like we have and although they have problems they dont take much crap.... I cant wait to go back one day..
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Old May 12, 2012, 12:46 PM   #10
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Likely very closely tied to a culture of respect for laws and for people...along with swift, harsh repercussions for not doing so. Note the recent quake in Japan. There was no looting or pillaging. No raping and robbing and no beat-downs just because it seemed like a good idea at the time. The Japanese people went quietly and respectfully about the business of cleaning up and rendering aid to those in need.

I'm not sure what conclusions we can draw from all that...but there it is.
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Old May 12, 2012, 12:50 PM   #11
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Maybe the Germans dont need as much ammo because they are not at war against their citizenry. Perhaps they treat their citizenry with some respect so they get respect in return and it has made for a less violent relationship between them?
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Old May 12, 2012, 12:52 PM   #12
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Any comparison between Germany and the US is invalid before you even start. Homogeneous population, tiny...

Last edited by zoomie; May 12, 2012 at 01:04 PM.
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Old May 12, 2012, 01:07 PM   #13
BGutzman
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Quote:
Any comparison between Germany and the US is invalid before you even start. Homogeneous population, tiny...
Yes as obviously tiny nations could not have crime nor discord and yet they have a large immigrant population....
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Old May 12, 2012, 01:24 PM   #14
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Cultural stereotypes aside (Germanic sense of discipline & order.)
I suspect that they deal with a lot fewer armed perpetrators proportionally.

The writer certainly makes no bones about where he comes down on the issue.
Quote:
According to Germany's Der Spiegel, German police shot only 85 bullets in all of 2011, a stark reminder that not every country is as gun-crazy as the U.S. of A.
What a tool.
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Old May 12, 2012, 01:25 PM   #15
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Possibly because their are less firearms in circulation. I can't be bothered but in stead of saying the population in germany is smaller so the figures are not accurate. Why don't some with this reply work out the population of germany and America and do the sums and then make a comparison.

Last edited by manta49; May 12, 2012 at 01:32 PM.
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Old May 12, 2012, 01:49 PM   #16
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street gangs in the USA border on civil disturbance.

Pick up 100 Gangster Disciples out of chicago and 100 mexican mafia out of texas and drop them on both sides of berlin.

Give them 6 months to set up competing crime and drug syndicates and see how many rounds the police have to fire that year.

Its not a gun problem its a gang problem.
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Old May 12, 2012, 02:25 PM   #17
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Its not a gun problem its a gang problem.
Well, if the gangs use guns, then it is also a gun problem, by association. The distinction that needs to be made is that these are illegal guns, as opposed to legal ones.

But if gangs are the cause, this then begs the question why are there so many gangs?
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Old May 12, 2012, 02:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
They're called cartridges, not bullets.. Stop regurgitating what the MSM calls loaded ammunition
They are indeed called bullets. You can't shoot a cartridge without shooting a bullet as well. So, nothing he wrote was incorrect. They only shot 85 bullets.
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Old May 12, 2012, 02:41 PM   #19
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"German police only used 85 bullets last year "

No, you're wrong, they used 85 cartridges..
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Old May 12, 2012, 02:41 PM   #20
Pond, James Pond
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Quote:
Why don't some with this reply work out the population of germany and America and do the sums and then make a comparison.
Actually, I was curious, so I looked it up.

Germany's population is 81.5 million, give or take , with 74% in urban areas, and they have a population density of 229.4 inhabitants per square kilometer.

By contrast the US have a populatiuon of about 313 million, with 82% in urban areas, but I couldn't easily find population density...

Anyway, not sure if that helps anyone...
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Old May 12, 2012, 02:42 PM   #21
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No, they used 85 cartriges..
Dunno about you but if I use a cartridge but don't use a bullet in the process, I get really upset....
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Old May 12, 2012, 05:29 PM   #22
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I am willing to forgive your petty complaints about cartridges versus bullets, provided you never, ever, write "boolit."
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Old May 12, 2012, 05:35 PM   #23
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Why? Boolit is more than just slang. It's a way to differentiate a cast lead (slug) from a jacketed (slug) while saving bandwidth with explanations.
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Old May 12, 2012, 07:22 PM   #24
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I would really say it is a cultural thing more than anything.


Look at the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina...then look at the Aftermath of the Earthquake/Tsunami in Japan....
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Old May 12, 2012, 07:24 PM   #25
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Wasn't this question the question behind "bowling for columbine"?
We do seem more violent than other countries.
There are probably a lot of reasons, and I doubt any of them are simple.

As far as Germany being small and homogenous, there are nearly 100,000,000 Germans, and nearly 20% of them are either immigrants or descendants of immigrants. At least according to wikipedia
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