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Old May 24, 2012, 04:23 PM   #51
Red Dog
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Join Date: November 28, 2010
Posts: 216
Been to the range trying this method twice.

All shots about 12ft.

This causes headaches.
Clear front sight fuzzy target = shots all over the place.
Clear target fuzzy front sight = shots all over the place.
I aim centermast and hit around the navel.
I had no consistency.
Tried to go slow and keep shooting form the same.
Paid attention to breathing patterns.

No enjoyment, not happy with results.
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Old May 24, 2012, 08:10 PM   #52
Frank Ettin
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
...Clear front sight fuzzy target = shots all over the place.
Clear target fuzzy front sight = shots all over the place.
I aim centermast and hit around the navel.
I had no consistency.
No enjoyment, not happy with results.
My immediate reaction is that it sounds like more of trigger control problem than a sight alignment problem. The bullet will go where the front sight was when the gun fired, but without proper trigger control, you are moving the gun off target just as it fires.

The first principle of accurate shooting is trigger control: a smooth, press straight back on the trigger with only the trigger finger moving. Maintain your focus on the front sight as you press the trigger, increasing pressure on the trigger until the shot breaks. Don't try to predict exactly when the gun will go off nor try to cause the shot to break at a particular moment. This is what Jeff Cooper called the "surprise break."

By keeping focus on the front sight and increasing pressure on the trigger until the gun essentially shoots itself, you don’t anticipate the shot breaking; and that helps you avoid jerking the trigger. Of course the gun will wobble some on the target. No one can hold a gun absolutely still. Try not to worry about the wobble. Just focus on the front sight and concentrate on pressing the trigger smoothly to a surprise break.

Practice deliberately, making every shot count, to program good habits and muscle memory. Dry practice is very helpful. You just want to triple check that the gun is not loaded, and there should be no ammunition anywhere around. When engaging in dry practice, religiously follow Rule 2 - Never Let Your Muzzle Cover Anything You Are Not Willing To Destroy." As you dry fire, you want to reach the point where you can't see any movement of the sight as the sear releases and the hammer (or striker) falls.

Whether you hold the gun with one hand or two, and whether you use the sights or point shoot, if you don't have trigger control, your gun will not be in line with the part of the target you want to hit when the bullet leaves the barrel of your gun -- and you will miss. But if you have controlled the trigger properly, you will hit.

Think: front sight, press, surprise.

And also think about getting some good instruction.
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
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Old May 24, 2012, 08:37 PM   #53
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There are some real ignorant posts here. Not everyone is built the same way, it is not even close to the same as "do you read with one eye?". A buddy of mine shoots with both eyes open because that is what is natural for him and it works. I am completely incapable of doing so, tried over and over again, it just doesn't work for me. My pistol instructor who I took a few classes with shoots in competitions all over the country, even he said he tried to train himself to shoot with both eyes open but no matter how hard he tries he just shoots a whole lot better with one eye closed. Try telling a lefty to use his right hand from now on.
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Old May 25, 2012, 12:59 PM   #54
Join Date: May 30, 2011
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Once you master both eyes open shooting try switching sides, if you are normally right handed try it left handed, whole nother skill set. Pistol is the easy one, rifle is next then shotgun is the hardest (at least to me). I've had to shoot several deer off my left shoulder (normally a righty).
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Old May 25, 2012, 01:18 PM   #55
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Hi RedDog,

Bummer about the outing, big bummer.

I wonder if it just won't work for all people. Shooting with both eyes open really counts on 1 eye being dominant and that one is the one used for shooting. The other just fills in the peripheral vision (and supplies a faint double image that can be dealt with, with some practice). I did some reading and it appears to be indeed the case that some people are neutral (neither eye is dominant, in fact there are varying degrees of eye dominance), I saw the term ambi-ocular used. If this is the case, I would think shooting with both eyes open would be impossible as their would not be a faint second image, but a true double image and depending on which one you go with, the shots may go left or right. I'm not sure, but it would seem to me that shooting both eyes open requires you to be dominant in 1 eye and the greater your eye dominance, then the easier it is to master this technique.

It probably isn't going to be right for everyone. If that's the case, I'd just shoot one eye closed and forget about it myself.
597 VTR, because there's so many cans and so little time!
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Old May 28, 2012, 01:00 PM   #56
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I'm not sure, but it would seem to me that shooting both eyes open requires you to be dominant in 1 eye and the greater your eye dominance, then the easier it is to master this technique.

I think that pgdion has a good point there. For me it was training that got me past the difficult part of using both eyes when shooting. I'm at the point now that I can switch eyes and switch hands easily including being cross dominate.
For me it’s the larger field of vision and better depth perception that shooting with both open makes it worth training for.
Training turned out to be very easy. It was suggested by a good friend that used to ride trains with Harry Truman. Take a cheap pair of sun glasses and tape over one side. This allows you to keep the weak eye open and will help from squinting and at the same time allows a clear view of the sights.
From his suggestion and after several hundred rounds I took off the glasses and I found it easy to keep both open and easy to center the strong eye on the sights. I have been doing that for the past 30 years.
Try it yourself, take an unloaded gun and hold it up with one hand and keep both eyes open. You will see a double set of rear or front sights. Then just bring your weak hand in front of your weak eye, you don’t need to cover it, just block the sights. The sights will easily align without squinting or closing the weak eye.
For me where it really helps is with eye fatigue and also scopes like Aimpoint’s.
Personally I don’t think that it’s impossible for everyone, but it can take some training and practice. But I do feel that being able to shoot with both eyes open will make you a better shooter.
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Old May 28, 2012, 06:45 PM   #57
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Some VERY good discussion here and food for thought for my next trip to the range. I am a FS shooter but I agree with the thought "if I have time to aim, I will close my left eye. If I don't have time, I will keep them both open." I desperately need practice on my quick draw for the surprise defensive use. But if I am practicing for score, I contend that I will continue to use the method that feels most natural to me.

Thanks for all the video/instructional links - very enlightening!
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Old May 29, 2012, 10:24 AM   #58
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In my experience, You will usually just start shooting with both eyes open with experience. The same with shotguns, one day you will realize that you are not focusing on the bead but the target with both eyes open.
"Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress, but I repeat myself." Mark Twain
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Old June 15, 2012, 01:33 PM   #59
Red Dog
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Another range session another attempt at this ...... not so good.

I wonder if eyeglasses could be causing my issues.
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Old June 15, 2012, 02:13 PM   #60
Strafer Gott
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US Army teaches point shooting with BB guns, at least that was the training they used in '71. I think today I'd use Airsoft. Much easier to see your round.
The Army used hand thrown targets. You can use whatever you have laying around, and not just sky shots either. Tie a tether ball on a tree for a swinging target. It doesn't take that many sessions to see some real improvement. It sure makes small game handgun hunting more productive.
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