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Old April 20, 2012, 10:49 AM   #1
Bartholomew Roberts
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Unarmed Man Attempts Robbery of Open Carry Proponent

http://www.annarbor.com/news/crime/u...holstered-gun/

An Eastern Michigan University student was walking on Pearl Street near the campus when a man approached him and attempted to grab his holstered handgun. The student was able to hold on to it until a second passerby came to his aid and the attacker fled the area.

Just a reminder that if you are going to open-carry, you need a very high-level of situational awareness, good retention skills, and a retention holster. This is not the first case, and won't be the last case, where an open-carry person was targeted for their firearm.
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Old April 20, 2012, 10:52 AM   #2
besafe2
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And this is why imho open carry is not smart.
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Old April 20, 2012, 10:57 AM   #3
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If you have the right holster & training, its not an issue...
also helps to be a 6'3 gorilla that looks like he would eat your spleen...
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Old April 20, 2012, 11:29 AM   #4
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I openned carried as a cop. It wasn't uncommon for someone to try for your revolver when rolling around on a bar room floor.

Since I retired I carry in my pocket. No one has ever tried to get my revolver.
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Old April 20, 2012, 12:09 PM   #5
Glenn E. Meyer
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Swat officer was killed with his own gun, not far from where we live. He saw a burglar, got physical and his gun was taken

Was a tragedy.
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Old April 20, 2012, 02:54 PM   #6
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A good retention holster and a backup gun on the weakside.

The situation in this story wasn't resolved until a second person helped the student.

Probably good tactics not to rely on someone coming to your rescue.
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Old April 20, 2012, 05:37 PM   #7
dayman
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Quote:
A good retention holster and a backup gun on the weakside.
So, open carry requires that you carry 2 guns? Would the BOB be concealed, or would a Bill Hickock rig be better?

In all seriousness though, guns - as we all know to well - are expensive, and open carry is basically advertizing a big payday for anyone who can take it from you.
Plus, outside of the woods, it makes you look a little foolish.
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Old April 20, 2012, 05:59 PM   #8
Nnobby45
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The case for open carry isn't just YES or NO.

If you open carry, you deter most criminals. They'll stay away from you.

The ones that aren't deterred are the most dangerous among them. With those individuals, you've not only given away a tactical advantage, you've called attention to yourself and attracted them to you.

Some OC just to emphasize their right to carry and are looking for attention. There might be maturity issues with such individuals.

Others OC because that's the only way they can under the law. Some OC in certain situations, like rural envronments, while camping, etc.

In some professions you might as well open carry. Jewelry store owners, gun shop owners, etc. can usually be assumed to have weapons close, if not on them, and there isn't much tactical advantage lost if one open carries.
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Old April 20, 2012, 07:07 PM   #9
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open-carry, safety levers, stupid criminals...

I agree with the forum members that if you open carry or are an armed professional, a secure holster/retention system is ideal.
A level II or III holster can also prevent mishaps/embarrassments too, .
I had my loaded Ruger GPNY slide out of a cross-draw Blade-tech holster in the mid 2000s. I was going to a service station & leaned over a tad far: .

For an unarmed subject(who's not intoxicated or an EDP) to attack an armed citizen is just dumb. It reminds me of the media report I heard of a local fast food joint that had a robber use the drive-thru to hold up the employees. Not too strange you'd think for the staff to comply but the crook was using a knife! Also it was a late night/early morning incident & all the doors were secured.

I know many people aren't; "ready to roll" but to deal with a knife holder when you are in a locked bldg isn't very complicated IMO.

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Old April 20, 2012, 07:29 PM   #10
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the backup weapon for the "weak side" (assuming a concealed knife is legal) - IMO a fixed blade knife is better. If you’re having to go for your backup, chances are, you’re in a scuffle.

Despite what some people might think, a knife requires training too. IMO, MORE training than a gun.
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Old April 20, 2012, 09:44 PM   #11
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Pus, outside of the woods, it makes you look a little foolish.
Really? Maybe he isn't 21 and can't CC, he is not allowed his rights by CCing so he is allowed to OC. How is that foolish? Maybe the states need to allow CC at age 18.
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Old April 20, 2012, 09:53 PM   #12
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The student was able to hold on to it until a second passerby came to his aid and the attacker fled the area.
This part troubles me the most. Obviously, the gun was an attractant, not a deterrent, and the student hadn't prepared for that eventuality. What if the assailant had struck him first instead of reaching for the gun? What if the assailant had been just a bit meaner or more determined?

Was the student serious about carrying a weapon, or was he mistaking it for a symbol? There's a difference.
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Old April 21, 2012, 12:19 AM   #13
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One incident leading to all these conclusions. You guys sound like a bunch of newspapermen.
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Old April 21, 2012, 12:32 AM   #14
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Quote:
One incident leading to all these conclusions. You guys sound like a bunch of newspapermen.
As noted, this isn't the only incident of its type. Even if it is the only incident, it doesn't mean the perspectives are in error, but only that they are not based on a large data set.
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Old April 21, 2012, 12:43 AM   #15
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Open carry is an issue of attraction to someone attempting to steal a gun. Not an issue in CA any longer is open is not longer legal.

I much prefer concealed carry and keeping that secret for my own tactical advantage if God forbid I ever had to consider that.
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Old April 21, 2012, 01:12 AM   #16
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Open carry was the only legal way to carry here in Az. from statehood until a few years ago.
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Old April 21, 2012, 01:17 AM   #17
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To me, open carry by non-LEO is the gun community equivalent of chewing with your mouth open. I think you should be able to do it, but boy oh boy do I think it's poorly thought out.

Too many OC'ers have the same craptastic attitude as the folks on YouTube who do all they can to provoke police officers. Much more about ego than anything else, and makes gun owners look like huge d-bags to the scared folks who see it (and, you know, vote on state and local gun laws)

Just one man's opinion. I do make an exception for open carry only jurisdictions. If that was the only way for me to carry, I'd do it. As for me, it'll always be concealed. I'll leave it to my bro to OC his G22 along with his badge and cuffs.
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Old April 21, 2012, 01:41 AM   #18
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I remember reading of one instance where a guy was talking a lot flashing his gun around open carrying and some one took it from him, seemingly to shut him up as much as anything.

There is this case.

Where are the others?

This came up before talking about civilians open carrying getting shot first. No one could come up with any stories where it happened if I remember correctly.

Yes it is a bit like waving a $500 bill around. For a long time I wore an $800 watch. Lots of people now walk around with $500+ phones on their belt openly without thinking twice.

I have been in situations where I was escorting tens of thousands of dollars cash. Sometimes alone and in a fairly conspicuous manner. I was once walking across downtown Dayton with a manilla envelope bulging with cash. Walking right by drug dealers, prostitutes, pimps, and other interesting fellows. No gun.

I bet this was more political than financial.

When openly carrying in a politically charged arena, and college campuses have all been so the last few weeks, it is best not to go alone.
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Old April 21, 2012, 05:57 AM   #19
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Do you become a target of opportunity if you OC, or are you stalked? Is it much like a purse snatcher? It would be interesting to interview convicts to ask their opinions. I wonder how many are actually deterred by OCer's and how many are enticed by it.
Here in CT, we are issued Carry Permits. Not CC. It is not against the law to OC, but you can be arrested for breach of peace if someone does call the police if your weapon is visible or becomes so. IMO, in this state, OCer's are not doing it for practical purposes so much as statement carrying. A few months back, the GF and I were at Dick's sporting goods. A large (300-330lb,6'3") man was at the counter OCing. I took a look at his rig and the first thing I noted was that his pants were not well secured, making his rig more of a drop leg. Not the most secure way to OC I think. To me, that was a statement carry.
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Old April 21, 2012, 10:59 AM   #20
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Unless CC is illegal and OC is legal I see no reason to OC. I do wish OC was legal in Texas for the reason that if my gun becomes exposed to view I’ll not be arrested for it.
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Old April 21, 2012, 02:53 PM   #21
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Quote:
Open carry is an issue of attraction to someone attempting to steal a gun. Not an issue in CA any longer is open is not longer legal.
Partially true. Functional open carry, that is, with a loaded firearm, has been illegal since 1968. Unloaded open carry was made illegal as of January 1, 2012 over most of the state, but there certainly are exceptions.
http://www.californiaopencarry.org/faq.html

Quote:
Unless CC is illegal and OC is legal I see no reason to OC. I do wish OC was legal in Texas for the reason that if my gun becomes exposed to view I’ll not be arrested for it.
Not to worry, you aren't likely to be arrested for an incidental exposure of your concealed gun.
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Old April 22, 2012, 11:02 AM   #22
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Open carry is not a deterrent. It is an invitation for a predator to take your gun. The whole point of concealed carry is to give you an edge that the prepaid or isn't aware of. When a cop carries a gun on his belt, the gun isn't the deterrent to a predator. It's the knowledge that he has the training to use it, and that there are several hundred or thousand brother officers standing behind that one cop.
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Old April 22, 2012, 11:54 AM   #23
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regaurdless of open carry or conceal carry,learn out to fight better.

Rule 1)don't let people get close to you
rule 2) don't let people grab your gun
rule 3) don't think after something bad has happen,think before.
rule 4)if you choose to open carry,learn how to fight while keeping control of your weapon.
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Old April 22, 2012, 02:43 PM   #24
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Quote:
One incident leading to all these conclusions. You guys sound like a bunch of newspapermen.
there is more then one.... here is one more

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx_YUO4SzcY

and here is a tip if you do carry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDeKtgkZKmQ
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Old April 22, 2012, 04:23 PM   #25
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We use level 3 holsters where I work, but we were taught to carry a knife clipped to your left pocket and if someone is grabbing at your gun, you grab their wrist with your right hand, and start thrusting the knife into their face. It sounds really brutal but it's supposed to be a really good way to make someone immediately pull their hands up to their face. Obviously at that point, you quickly assess whether to shoot them or not and go from there. Obviously wouldn't work on the ground, but would have worked in the case of this story.
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