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Old May 6, 2012, 04:15 PM   #26
Hawg
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The 94 was designed for a rifle cartridge and many are problematic with pistol length cartridges.
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Old May 6, 2012, 06:00 PM   #27
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AFAIk there has never been an authenticated factory or custom made 45LC lever gun from "Back Then" so if you want to have an "authentic" rifle-handgun combo 44-40 will be "correct". The straightwall case of the 45LC is easier to reload, you can obtain carbide resizing dies, the bottleneck design of the 44-40 precludes them. I posted a message here asking if any of the CAS shooters here had experienced case setback with the 44-40 in their revolvers, they all said not
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Old May 6, 2012, 06:16 PM   #28
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AFAIk there has never been an authenticated factory or custom made 45LC lever gun from "Back Then"
Nope they never made one, not for production anyway. The original balloon head .45 Colt case was too small for the extractor to grip.
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Old May 6, 2012, 07:48 PM   #29
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I am seeing some case mouth splits starting at around 20 reloads of Starline brass. I keep my .45 Colt brass in boxes of 100 and don't mix with others so I can keep track of the 'reload' count. I use Triple-7 FFFg in mine slightly compressed under a 250g RNFP. Even though Triple-7 isn't real BP ... I like it because I can use my normal powder measure (can't with real BP) and use the same lubed bullets as I do with smokeless powder. Plus it has just a bit more 'omph' as well, yet generates plenty of smoke. Not for everyone ... but I like it.

I don't reload .44-40 nor have any revolver/rifle that chambers it so no comment on it.
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Old May 6, 2012, 08:51 PM   #30
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Thanks RC

I think that about clinches it.

Now I gotta start saving pennies.

I'll be back with more questions when I have more money.
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Old May 7, 2012, 10:58 AM   #31
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Doc, as you probably know, the .45 Colt wasn't chambered in a rifle back in the day. The earliest reference I can find to a production .45 Colt rifle is possibly 1959, so if authenticity is your goal, .44-40 is the way to go. Avoid Remington brass; it has a slightly thicker rim and causes problems in some guns, very notably in my 1875 Remingtons. The .44-40 is also a far superior black powder cartridge than the .45 Colt, due to the thinner neck wall.
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Old May 7, 2012, 05:54 PM   #32
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I know that .45 was not an original Winchester caliber...

....and appreciate your input.

Period correct is not an issue since I don't shoot CAS.

.45 LC seems to be a good place to start.
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Old May 7, 2012, 05:55 PM   #33
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Period correct is not an issue since I don't shoot CAS.
It isn't an issue with CAS either.
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Old May 7, 2012, 09:34 PM   #34
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.45 Colt.... .45 Long Colt.... .44-40

I could be wrong. But I always thought that the label 45 Colt meant the (ACP) cartridge description..So to separate the two 45s calibers from each other. Someone or an ammo manufacture re-named the 45 Colt revolver ammo to 45 Long Colt. Which to some made it easier to understand the differences between the two cartridges. 45 Colt >(acp) 1911 weapon--45 Long Colt >cowman's 1873 pistol. Like I said I could be wrong? Am I off base on this one?
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Old May 7, 2012, 10:36 PM   #35
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OK, I will start another argument. To me, the .45 Colt, .44-40, .45 Army (Schofield), and .44 Special are all much of a muchness. I doubt anyone hit by one of them could tell which one it was, and the "big" differences exist only in folks' imaginations.

FWIW, the ONLY ammunition issued to the U.S. Army from 1874 to the end of the SAA's service life was the .45 Army or .45 Government. The .45 Colt was not made at Frankford or contracted for. The Model 1909 was chambered by Colt for the .45 Colt, but the Army never issued that ammunition, making its own .45 Model 1909 cartridge with a larger rim.

So in spite of story and myth, the U.S. Army actually issued .45 Colt ammunition for only about a year.

Jim
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Old May 8, 2012, 04:46 AM   #36
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James,

Yep. All of what you said is valid and I assume truthful.

My decision to PROBABLY go with .45 Colt is that, in the absense of any performance infomation which gravitates to one caliber or the other (Considering only the .44-40 and .45 Colt) I will likely go with the Colt since I like the look of the round more than the .44-40.

But keep in mind.....


I have yet to acquire the first splinter of anything associated with cartridge shooting.
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Old May 10, 2012, 12:15 PM   #37
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Don't worry; there's still time.

I suspect that one of the reasons the expression .45 Long Colt came into use was perhaps because at the time, there were other cartridges that actually came in a "short" and a "long" and in fact the cases were so marked. They all had one-way interchangeability. The .38 Long Colt was a standard US Army cartridge for about 20 years but I don't know what the army called it. I doubt anyone thinks .45 auto when they hear .45 Colt. More likely people would think of malt liquor first.

There is still a .32 S&W Long but I doubt you could find either a .32 S&W Short or anything to shoot it in. I believe there's even an automatic pistol for the .32 S&W Long. There was a fad to chamber automatics in .38 S&W Special for a while but nobody does that anymore.
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Old May 10, 2012, 03:19 PM   #38
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I could be wrong. But I always thought that the label 45 Colt meant the (ACP) cartridge description..So to separate the two 45s calibers from each other. Someone or an ammo manufacture re-named the 45 Colt revolver ammo to 45 Long Colt
Sorry for taking so long to get back but I've been in the hospital.
Look at the head stamps. .45 ACP says .45 ACP, .45 Colt(long colt) says .45 Colt. The .45 S&W was the .45 Government. IMHO The long colt came into being with civilians asking for .45 Colt and getting S&W, so they started commonly calling them long .45's to distinguish the two and it evolved from there into Long Colt and the name stuck even tho the .45 S&W was discontinued in the 40's.
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Old May 10, 2012, 03:19 PM   #39
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There is still a .32 S&W Long but I doubt you could find either a .32 S&W Short or anything to shoot it in.
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index....mo-32-sw-short
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Old May 10, 2012, 04:32 PM   #40
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Folks got so used to having "Short" "Long" and "Long rifle" versions of the same cartridge might also have something to do with it.

For example:
.32 Short rimifire, .32 Long rimfire, .32 Long rifle rimfire, .32 Extra long
.41 Short Colt, .41 Long Colt
.44 Short rimfire, .44 Long rimfire, .44 Henry Flat
.25 extra short
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Old May 10, 2012, 06:02 PM   #41
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It's a simple regional dialect thing that the anal grammar & technicality police love championing over people. Slang and regional dialect versions of speech are very accepted and well within the bounds of recognized language, so the people who say Long Colt are in fact closer to being right than the speech nazis. That's the wonderful thing about the English language, it's dynamic.
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Old May 10, 2012, 06:27 PM   #42
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It's a simple regional dialect thing
How do you figure that?
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Old May 10, 2012, 07:24 PM   #43
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Thanks for the clarity Hawg in regards to the differnt 45 cartridges. Hey I again learned something today!!
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I've been in the hospital.
I hope the problem wasn't too serious and has been resolved. As it's nice to have you back on-line again.
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45 S&W was the .45 Government.
All I've ever seen in my time was the 45 ACP and the 45-(Long) Colt. Have a question: What is the 45 auto rim cartridge? Could it be the same cartridge as the S&W 45 and 45 Goverment?
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Old May 10, 2012, 07:46 PM   #44
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The auto rim is basically a .45 ACP with a rim. It was designed to be used in in revolvers that require half moon clips.
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Old May 11, 2012, 09:50 AM   #45
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Sorry for taking so long to get back but I've been in the hospital.
All is well now, I hope!
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Old May 11, 2012, 04:33 PM   #46
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All is well now, I hope!
No, I go back Monday for a heart catheter. Hoping I don't have to have surgery.
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Old May 11, 2012, 05:01 PM   #47
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The auto rim is basically a .45 ACP with a rim. It was designed to be used in in revolvers that require half moon clips.
And the rim is very thick, about .090" instead of the usual .060" so as to take up the same headspace as ACPs in clips. It is not interchangeable with anything else I know of, and is not usable in single actions with ACP cylinders.

Note, there is a thing called the .45 Cowboy which is the length of an ACP with the rim of an LC. Made for real tenderfoot loads. No problem in a revolver but a lever action .45 Colt rifle has to be gunsmithed to handle the much shorter round.

Historical note, in 1906 Frankford Arsenal produced a .45 Revolver round the same as .45 Auto except with a standard rim. I don't know if anybody offered up a revolver to shoot it in the Army trials. The 1909 New Service stopgrap revolver was chambered .45 Colt and the Army loaded special large rim diameter shells for it to give better simultaneous extraction. I don't know why it didn't get the short FA cartridge.
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Old May 11, 2012, 09:58 PM   #48
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No, I go back Monday for a heart catheter. Hoping I don't have to have surgery.
You're in our prayers, Hawg.
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Old May 11, 2012, 11:23 PM   #49
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Thanks HC.
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Old May 14, 2012, 02:04 PM   #50
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Well, I have an interview with a heart surgeon tomorrow. Doc says I have a big artery 90% blocked and three little ones 80%. They can stent the big one and treat the little ones but I'll always have chest pains and wont ever work again. If I have the surgery I can go back to work in a couple of months. Gonna be a long haul with no paycheck. Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.
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