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Old May 3, 2012, 08:20 AM   #26
twobit
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Look again at the Cimarron site and go to the Artillery model. BP frame 5 1/2".

They explain the Artillery model came about after the Indian wars when the wore out 7 1/2" model original SAA's were returned to the armories, barrels shortened, and worn parts replaced. The Rough Riders (Teddy Roosevelt) used the Artillery model in their charge up San Juan Hill.

Mine is the Artillery model and I find this barrel length (5 1/2") just right, as Goldilocks would say.
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Old May 3, 2012, 10:19 AM   #27
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Another pic on my Uberti 45.

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Old May 3, 2012, 01:49 PM   #28
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Just by taking a small look at Towboater's gun and it's easy to see why those Uberti guns are used by the movie industry. Even up close it looks almost exactly like one of the original colts. The good thing is they work well too.

Mykeal, when a colt is referred to as pre war it's WWII that's implied. Colts made prior to the war are considered 1st generation and a premium is paid for them. After the war left over parts were used to build other colts as well. The pre '98's have an additional premium added.

The bp frames were actually made well into the 1890's and colts have a plethera of configurations that can effect their values from slightly to drastically, such as having a pinched frame, which is unknown by most, but is simply a narrow spot while looking down the length of the rare sight notch. Get one of them and you've hit the lottery.

People who know the colt will even measure the thickness of the frame to determine if it was refinished, which will cause metal loss. Phony markings like U.S. and inspector stamps have fooled the experts. John Kopec, who I conferred with, is the number one hands down colt expert in the world and was the original owner of Peacemaker Specialists. Being a former colt gunsmith he knew how to caseharden and blue guns using the factory methods.

I sent Towboat_er a photo of a colt US Army .38LC that the govt wanted to use in place of the SAA. It was modern looking and the 1st smokeless used by the military, but after many years of use and re-works they dropped it. The SAA was king and to me is still king with the 1911 of course.
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Old May 3, 2012, 04:41 PM   #29
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Twobit is correct about the artillery model. They're always found with mixed numbers, which is normal for them, but there are some very rare examples with matching numbers. This is one of the most counterfeited guns on the market and are very difficult to expose when done well. Sometimes original parts are mixed in with fakes and many are even being shown in museums as original.

The 5 1/2" barrel is my favorite for obvious reasons, but is the best balanced compared to other lengths, though the 4 3/4" seems to be the most sought after.

Those SAA's replaced the 38LC revolvers in the Phillipines, even though there wasn't much complaint regarding them in the Spanish American War in '98. It's been written that most of the blame for not stopping those drugged up psychos was that the troops were lousy shots, but stopping power of the 45LC cannot be disputed.

Last edited by gunsmokeTPF; May 3, 2012 at 07:34 PM.
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Old May 3, 2012, 05:26 PM   #30
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Very interesting stuff, thanks for sharing.
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Old May 3, 2012, 08:59 PM   #31
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towboat-er,

Did you do the "antiquing" on your Cattleman yourself? or is one of the "old west" models? Looks nice. I have the same pistol and thinking about doing some polishing on it.
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Old May 3, 2012, 09:51 PM   #32
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top is my 3rd gen Colt bottom is USFA both 45 Colts.
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Old May 3, 2012, 10:06 PM   #33
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My '73 Cattleman Hombre is my humble submission of a SAA "recreation". This is one of my favorite shooters......And it gets shot a LOT Nice looking pistols in here


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Old May 4, 2012, 01:04 AM   #34
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Cimarron has a custom service that can give a pistol that peuter look and have the appearance of a 130 year old smoke wagon at a very reasonable price. They can also very tastefully slightly age the grips to match.

If stags are to your liking you can pick up a set of jigged bone grips like the ones Roy Rogers and Gene Autrey used and they're not expensive and look authentic.

Real stags are more costly, but let them soak for just a little while in a pot of water with tea bags and you'll have a pair that looks naturally aged. Soak'um too long and the'll soften up and warp. John Wayne used that trick on his fake ivories. Many wonderful things can be done to that gun. It just takes a little imagination and a few bucks.
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Old May 4, 2012, 04:43 AM   #35
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Quote:
If stags are to your liking you can pick up a set of jigged bone grips like the ones Roy Rogers and Gene Autrey used and they're not expensive and look authentic.
Authentic to B westerns, not the real old west.
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Old May 4, 2012, 07:12 AM   #36
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Heres my ASM New Dakota model in .45lc

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Old May 4, 2012, 08:50 AM   #37
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Hawg, you're correct about the jigged bone grips being associated with cowboys of "B" westerns, but there's lots of linkage between those in early Hollywood and the old west. While filming early movies, especially silent, many authentic outlaws and lawmen were actually used to recreate famous events. Butch Cassidy did his thing into the 20th century, as well as Dillinger and Bonnie and Clyde. I consider them outlaws as much as the James gang, but were just around in more modern times.

The Colt New Service, which originally came out in 1898, in my book is a western style revolver though modern by all standards. They were seen all over the place during the Mexican Revolution. All that took place during WWI. That new service had a non functioning ejector rod and housing screwed into the barrel in order to make it look like a SAA in Hollywood. Heck, Charles Bronson in the White Buffalo had a scene while waking up from a nightmare starts shooting at the mounted buffalo head on his bedroom wall. The guns used were a pair of S&W model10 heavy barrels with plastic stags and barrels with ejector rods screwed on. Even Dean Martin used phonied up Smiths as well. That's Hollywood!Those guns were used in scenes where they wanted very rapid shots.

Two of my favorite all time westerns are The Wild Bunch and The Professionals. These were based in the time of the 20th century. The Winchester 1897 riot shotguns though modern if compared to a 73, or 92 and the 1911 is modern compared to an old SA are used like crazy in those films with great effect. I have jigged bone on my vintage 1920's colt new service. I even added on the Tyler T-grip, but with it's F. Mueller holster it looks western as well. I sent a photo of that one to Towboat_er also.

If the 1800's authentic look is only desired then of couse the jigged bone may, or may not want to be used. But the good vintage ones make for a nice looking stag effect. I really love this subject and hope more can be discussed.

Movies like I mentioned, as well as Pancho Villa, are considered westerns, though not old 1800's western. But I'd consider them authentic western for all intents and purposes. A good read if can be found is an old Guns and Ammo publication from the 1970's called "Guns of the Gunfighters". It covers as far back as Zorro in old California up to Elliot Ness. There's lots of photos of guns, gear, actual shootouts caught by the camera. It's a fascinating soft cover book worth searching for.

Last edited by gunsmokeTPF; May 4, 2012 at 09:04 AM.
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Old May 4, 2012, 07:18 PM   #38
Red Wiggler
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I dont think you could call that the standard hawg haggen. Might want to think about that. wiggler
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Old May 4, 2012, 07:33 PM   #39
Hawg
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Well it wasn't the only frame made but more were made of it than any other Colt single action until the so called smokeless frame came about.
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Old May 5, 2012, 04:28 PM   #40
Black Powder
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SAA Cattleman 5.1/2" - Western Saloon

My Uberti SAA Cattleman 5.1/2" - Western Saloon, cal.: 4mmM20
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC08794.JPG (204.7 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg DSC08793.jpg (170.0 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg DSC08795.jpg (172.4 KB, 32 views)
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Starr SA 1863 .44 org., Whitney Navy .36 org., Zimmerstutzen .117 org., Colt Lightning .44-40 org., Lancaster Hammerless 12ga org.,GEW 88,Tryon .45 DP,Sharps Carbine and Sporting .45 IAB,D.H.Hilliard .40,Barlow .40,Cub Dixie DeLux .32 DP,Colt 1861 Special Musket .58,Billinghurst .451,Gallager .54,Hatfield .32 DP,Rigby .451,Shotgun Coach 12ga.DP,Endfield .58 PH, Tingle .36

Last edited by Black Powder; May 5, 2012 at 04:35 PM.
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Old May 5, 2012, 05:12 PM   #41
Hawg
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I bet that is heavy with those tiny holes.
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Old May 5, 2012, 07:34 PM   #42
arcticap
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I had never heard about the 4mm M20 before but I looked it up.
Thanks for showing us.

Cartridge Image:

http://img2.odklepnuto.cz/obrazek/big/item/10116234/

More Google Images:

https://www.google.com/search?client...AeL30gGcv8mdBQ
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Old May 6, 2012, 05:34 AM   #43
Black Powder
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Weight: 1330g.
Energy: 3,5-4J = 2,6-3ft/lb
Producted especially for only Germany, price: 580,- Euro.
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Starr SA 1863 .44 org., Whitney Navy .36 org., Zimmerstutzen .117 org., Colt Lightning .44-40 org., Lancaster Hammerless 12ga org.,GEW 88,Tryon .45 DP,Sharps Carbine and Sporting .45 IAB,D.H.Hilliard .40,Barlow .40,Cub Dixie DeLux .32 DP,Colt 1861 Special Musket .58,Billinghurst .451,Gallager .54,Hatfield .32 DP,Rigby .451,Shotgun Coach 12ga.DP,Endfield .58 PH, Tingle .36
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Old May 6, 2012, 10:16 AM   #44
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4mm M20

Wow, that is definitely interesting there! Thanks for posting.


(nice pistols guys!)
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Old May 6, 2012, 05:40 PM   #45
Andy Griffith
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I've seen some 4mm pistols, always wondered where some ammunition could be found.
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Old May 7, 2012, 08:13 AM   #46
Beagle333
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Pictures hosted for Sure Shot Mc Gee

Quote:
For your pleasure Gentlemen:
45 Colt 7 1/2 barrel in Nickel & spare cylinder is 45-ACP.
Bought as a Set from Colt in 1992.
(Never fired nor handled much by its original owner.)
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Old May 7, 2012, 10:39 AM   #47
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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SAA Cattleman 5.1/2" - Western Saloon

Quote:
4mmM20
What a dandy little weapon. Just the ticket for someone who doesn't need much down range bullet distance to deal with stripped gofers and other vermin in their own back yard. What a neat little revolver. Thanks for the Great posting. Appreciate it.

P. Script: Curious. A question please: How hard is it to find ammo for this little revolver? and who makes it? Thanks again,
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Old May 7, 2012, 04:48 PM   #48
Jbar4Ranch
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Weird, I've never even heard of such a thing.

If this is a Colt SAA thread, I have exactly one; a 1st gen .45, 26,000 range, made in October of 1876.




If Uberti's, Rugers, Freedom Arms, and other single actions count, put me down for 83 more.
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SASS 47015
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Old May 7, 2012, 10:13 PM   #49
gunsmokeTPF
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Interesting colt and I'd love to see a closeup of the front sight. Holster is nice as well. Is there a maker's name?
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Old May 7, 2012, 10:52 PM   #50
Jbar4Ranch
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The front sight is fashioned from a segment of a Liberty half dollar; there is no makers mark evident on the holster.

The revolver was found under the mattress of a dead drifter in a hotel room in the Elk Park area near Butte, Montana around 1931.
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