The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 28, 2012, 02:23 AM   #1
linkmrr
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 27, 2012
Posts: 8
Took the Armscor back, got a pardner pump

So long story short virtually no accessories for the armscor shotguns, so for $20 more i got an h&r pardner pump protector. Its a HD i have no plans taking it out of hiding besides the range and god forbid an intruder. So now i have lots of things to choose from as its a clone of an 870, after lots of reasearch here is my soon to be loadout..

H&R Pardner Pump Protector 18.5" 12Ga
ATI Pistol grip with top folding stock
ATI standard Halo Heat shield
Mako forend with 3 rails
Mako quick release forend grip
Undecided laser
Undecided LED

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, looking for someone with EXPERIENCE with this model or other pardner pump models with any of these accessories or advice for different ones, the mako action forend had one review saying it did not fit the pardner pump without slight modification which i feel is standard for any clone gun. Any clue? Also open to light/laser ideas as i have no clue, and btw i own a clone, im on a budget.

Thanks
Mark
linkmrr is offline  
Old April 28, 2012, 06:44 PM   #2
Lee Lapin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2004
Location: SE NC
Posts: 1,238
KISS, KISS, KISS...

It's heavy enough as is, doesn't need a heat shield to add weight - and unless you plan on putting a bayonet on it, there's no reason to grab a hot barrel, assuming you ever get your barrel hot that is. Learn to load it at the shoulder (shoot one load one drills) and you won't have to touch the barrel, even if you do ever get it hot. Only time I ever got a barrel hot enough to worry about was in Awerbuck's shotgun class doing Rolling Thunder drills.

Top folder? From ATI? Compounding errors, in my book. Haven't liked top folders since I got an original one from Remington back in 197something, and never found a reason to re-visit that decision. Stick to the standard stock, at least for the first few hundred rounds.

If you're going to change out the forearm, just change it to a short Remington style LEO type (so you can get a full capacity sidesaddle on the gun), and forget the rails. Might as well try to pump the gun with a cheese grater screwed to the forearm as with all those rails. And a vertical joystick? Useful for 'driving' an AR, not so much for pumping a shotgun.

Laser? Not really needed. White light, yes, but that can go on a short rail mounted on the magazine tube ahead of the forearm. Something like http://www.amazon.com/Streamlight-Ta.../dp/B0028LXG5A for example. And if you really really really gotta have a laser, get a TLR 4 that combines light and laser - http://www.opticsplanet.net/streamli...lashlight.html

Spend money on ammo, and decide what will really help YOU run YOUR GUN better as you go along and learn. Last Pardner I put to work has a 4-shot Sidesaddle with the original field length factory forearm still in place (my wife shoots it too and needs the extra room), the same light rail as linked above, and a TLR3 LED white light. That and a plain carrying strap/sling on quick detachable swivels on the factory studs are all that's been done to it, save shooting and cleaning.

Spend money on ammo FIRST and go shoot the thing A LOT before you start bolting stuff onto it!

I think you'll like it, I'm happy with the ones I have.
__________________
Mindset - Skillset - Toolset. In that order!

Attitude and skill will get you through times of no gear, better than gear will get you through times of no attitude and no skill.
Lee Lapin is offline  
Old April 28, 2012, 08:43 PM   #3
Onward Allusion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2009
Location: IN
Posts: 1,735
Quote:
linkmrr
Took the Armscor back, got a pardner pump
I second the KISS comment. You don't need that stuff. A rail & a light, maybe 'cause you need to identify what you're shooting at. A heat shield? Your shotty won't get that hot after a few round (if it even comes to that). A top folder & pistol grip? No, it'll get in the way. The Pardner Protector has a decent short stock. Quick release fore-end? For what?

The Pardner Protector is a good home defense shotgun all by itself. It doesn't need all that stuff. Like I'd said maybe a rail + light. If you really must have a pistol grip, get a tactical stock (built in pistol grip + stock). IMO, you're giving up a lot with the flimsy aftermarket tactical stock.

I do have a H&R PP and it is stock with a side saddle & a light clamped onto the tube.
__________________
"With great power, there must also come great responsibility." - Stan Lee

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
Onward Allusion is offline  
Old May 1, 2012, 12:24 AM   #4
linkmrr
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 27, 2012
Posts: 8
So i guess i did go a little accessory crazy, dropped the heatshield and top folding stock (going to give stocks a long thought as im not 21 as my state permits for pistol grip) switched to CAA tri rail forend, looking into a different forend grip one that is set at an angle rather than a peg thing, would make pumping much easier. I like the full length saddle rails but thats just eye candy. Going to splurge and get the streamlight tlr s2. Recommend a collapsible stock? i have a $200 gun, want something nice but nice for the price. Thanks again iv had alot less luck talking about ANYTHING on other gun forums
linkmrr is offline  
Old May 1, 2012, 12:33 AM   #5
TheKlawMan
Junior member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 2,149
Why sould you want a collapsible stock for HD? If push comes to shove I want to use the stock as a club.
TheKlawMan is offline  
Old May 1, 2012, 12:36 AM   #6
linkmrr
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 27, 2012
Posts: 8
Because i dont need the extra foot or so. I have a baseball bat for hitting people.
I can handle an unarmed intruder, as for an armed intruder? i live in wyoming he wont get 10 feet in. Hence the $250 flashlight for checking targets
linkmrr is offline  
Old May 1, 2012, 08:46 PM   #7
TheKlawMan
Junior member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 2,149
Quote:
Because i dont need the extra foot or so. I have a baseball bat for hitting people.
I can handle an unarmed intruder, as for an armed intruder? i live in wyoming he wont get 10 feet in. Hence the $250 flashlight for checking targets
If your shotgun jams or for some other reason you find yourself locked in close combat, I hope that your baseball bat is handy. Living in Wyoming, it shouldn't be the problem it is in some places, but if you ever have to defend yourself for pullilng a trigger you may wish it wasn't the trigger of the so-called evil looking gun.

What I don't get is why someone would pay $200 for a gun and then plunk down $600 or more to accessorize it; money that could be well spent on some shooting time.
TheKlawMan is offline  
Old May 1, 2012, 09:32 PM   #8
linkmrr
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 27, 2012
Posts: 8
If it jams on an armed intruder im s.o.l either way, i still have a good 8 pounds to swing with a hammer shaped pointed object, iv never been pistol whipped but im sure scattergun struck is more dangerous. And not every one has the resources for a $600 gun then adding $600 of accessories, i am spending $200 on a gun and $400 on accessories, i could walk out paying near that on a gun and run around my house blindly confronting a intruder in the dark. I asked for help or advice from people who have had experience with my gun or parts and could help improve it, rather than criticize me for doing something you dont rightly agree with. i have no problems with a pistol grip, and a forend grip to boot? Thanks for everyone who had some relevant input, have greatly reconsidered a number of things
linkmrr is offline  
Old May 2, 2012, 01:18 AM   #9
Lee Lapin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2004
Location: SE NC
Posts: 1,238
I still suggest that, if you want to change out the factory forearm, you replace it with a Remington style law enforcement length (7") forearm. Forearm "bite" is only one reason... I've seen 870s 'bite' the palm or heel of shooters' hands when the forearm just barely overlapped the front of the receiver.

Feel the front edges of the bottom of the receiver on your Pardner...

No one wants to rain on anyone's parade, but significant bleeding on the firing line is not fun. Guns that break or don't run are not fun either. Which is why so many of us oldpharts keep saying that the less aftermarket stuff bolted on a serious shotgun, the better. Unless the plan is to shoot kewl-gun pictures and not shotgun shells.

The following, from oldphart trainer John Farnam:
==============================

http://www.defense-training.com/quips/28Mar12.html
Over-Bite!
28 Mar 12

Pump-shotgun over-bite:

At a Defensive Shotgun Course last weekend, a student brought a Mossberg 590. The factory forend had been replaced with an after-market one that featured rails on all three sides. To the bottom rail, the student had attached a vertical forend.

The gun ran fine, but the vertical forend broke-off within fifty rounds of enthusiastic firing. All too typical for vertical forends! So, the student simple defaulted to operating the forend in the conventional manner. The gun continued to run fine, until one of my instructors called me over to examine a finger injury that had been suffered by the student.

The student had a nasty gash in the tip of his left-side index finger. He was pretty tough, so we put a Bandaid on it, and he subsequently finished the Course, but I calculated that it would eventually required a suture, or two, to close the wound properly.

We quickly figured out what caused the finger-cut, and I should have caught it before we started. The after-market forend, as installed, produced a half-inch "over-bite" with the shotgun's receiver. That is, at its rearmost, the forend over-rode the receiver. The gap was tight, and the rail was sharp, as was the edge of the receiver!

When he operated the slide normally, my student got his finger next to the bottom/rear of the receiver, which (as noted above) also has a sharp edge, and the forend came back and trapped his finger there, causing the cut.
///SNIP

More quips'n'quotes at http://www.defense-training.com/quips/quips.html . People who supervise hundreds of students firing hundreds of thousands of rounds a year, every year, year after year, get a lot of insight into what works and what doesn't as far as equipment is concerned. I tend to listen to them.
__________________
Mindset - Skillset - Toolset. In that order!

Attitude and skill will get you through times of no gear, better than gear will get you through times of no attitude and no skill.
Lee Lapin is offline  
Old May 2, 2012, 02:40 AM   #10
linkmrr
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 27, 2012
Posts: 8
The factory forearm is 9" long, the CAA one i want is 8", so even more room from the start, the rails consist of a full length bottom picatinny and two estimated 2" picatinny rails on front side. I held it in my local store on a 870 and it felt comfortable despite the lower rail. I do respect your opinions have come a long way, from heatshields and crappy plastic folding stocks (held the ati at the tanner gun show) etc. To a upgraded stock, forearm and forearm grip. Only reason i like the forend so much is it greatly reduces the recoil when held right and have had no problems with forearm mounted grips before, especially the / rather than the | shaped ones. CAA - CRGPT870, CAA - IFG, CAA - RR870 + Streamlight TLR s2 is my final loadout. Want cheek rest on stock and shell saddle on pistol grip picatinny rail.
linkmrr is offline  
Old May 2, 2012, 12:26 PM   #11
ohiomossyoak
Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2010
Location: East Central Ohio
Posts: 92
That is a awful long list,but im not one to judge to harshly....Have you considered a extended magazine tube?If it will work with your barrel length
__________________
First it's pretty tires, then it's pretty guns and bows...next thing you know, you're shavin' your beard and wearin' capri pants
ohiomossyoak is offline  
Old May 2, 2012, 12:44 PM   #12
linkmrr
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 27, 2012
Posts: 8
i have a 18.5" barrel, only room i see is MAYBE a +1 but it would stick out roughly 1/4 of an inch. I read to no understanding that if i took the plastic magazine thing out (not the factory plug that stops you from loading more than 2 shells) that you could get a plus +1, so with an extension and that plastic thing should put me at 7+1, +1 being 1 in chamber. Read a lot on extended mag tubes that is another 870 accessory that wont fit right off the bat, had any experience with + mag extensions on a pardner?
linkmrr is offline  
Old May 3, 2012, 01:04 PM   #13
old fart
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 24, 2009
Posts: 281
I have two pardner pump protector's, i put a hogue pistol grip on one as a hiking and woods gun. the other i left alone and will use it for deer, the hogue soaks up recoil as i've tried buckshot and slugs. the regular shotshells are great, low recoil buckshot feels good, the slugs kicked a bit but it didn't hurt. i love my pardner pumps, the best deal going in shotguns they are built like a tank. put several hundred rounds thru mine and its worked perfect no problems at all.
old fart is offline  
Old May 4, 2012, 04:33 AM   #14
kflo01
Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 61
Go with the houge forearm grip. It will give you a strong grip on the shotgun and its very short. Scrap all the other junk besides a flash light. At most and a sling to be used in an shotgun classes you take. Do not get a fore grip nor add a rail to the forearm.
__________________
NYS Unrestricted | PA CCP | FL CCP
NRA Member
"Reading,Learning and Doing"
kflo01 is offline  
Old May 4, 2012, 05:51 PM   #15
Lee Lapin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2004
Location: SE NC
Posts: 1,238
"The plastic magazine thing" does two jobs - it keeps the magazine cap from loosening up, and keeps the magazine spring in place when the barrel is taken off for cleaning. Taking it out to try and crowd one more shell into the magazine is a Bad Idea. The gun already holds six rounds out of the box, with the plug out. Best advice I can give is to learn to load the thing on the fly with the gun at the shoulder and not worry about how long the magazine tube is. No matter HOW long it is it'll eventually run dry anyway and you still have to reload it, so learn to live with that fact early on. Learn to hit what you shoot at, and how to reload the gun in a hurry, and don't worry about magazine capacity.

Trying to put a magazine extension on anything with magazine tube dimples (necessary for the plastic magazine thing to work) is a Mistake, in my experience.
__________________
Mindset - Skillset - Toolset. In that order!

Attitude and skill will get you through times of no gear, better than gear will get you through times of no attitude and no skill.
Lee Lapin is offline  
Old May 4, 2012, 06:11 PM   #16
TheKlawMan
Junior member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 2,149
What Lee said. I was wondering what you the plastic thing is that you were talking about. It sounds like what comes with the newer 870 Express models. Leave it as it is and learnn to load on the fly if you think 6+1 isn't enough.
TheKlawMan is offline  
Old September 24, 2013, 11:14 PM   #17
semi_problomatic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 27, 2009
Location: Ft. Polk
Posts: 874
I know this is old, but, as I have stumbled on it, someone else
May as well later.

Just wanted to address some wrong info.

Stock loadout was 5+1, not 6+1.

1) the dimples can be drilled out to allow the extension to work.
2) you no longer need the spikey black piece because the extension connects in the middle, the end is now solid
3) if you want 7+1 and barrel even with tube, get a breech brake. The king's brake will give you 7+1 and be flush. There's always a reason to carry more ammo.
4) streamlight makes a forearm with a built in flashlight. Another option over clipping one to the side and having something for it to snag on.
5) some guys like pistol grip stocks, some don't... But its always user preferance. I like the idea of speedfeed +4 shell holder stock, but i've read mixed reviews.
6) if you want a 6 round side saddle you'll need to put a smaller forearm on it anyway.


I fully realise the date of this post and that the OP might never read it and has probably mall-ninja'd his shotgun out already. This is for future readers who may stumble across this.
__________________
Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...
semi_problomatic is offline  
Old September 27, 2013, 09:43 AM   #18
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,071
A drop down vertical forward handle is going to encourage faster wear of action bars and guide rails as you drag upwards pressure on back of bars on rearward stroke and forward and downward wear on forward stroke...

A standard stock puts nearly no upwards or downwards wear to bars or rails...

brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old October 16, 2013, 07:59 AM   #19
111t
Junior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2012
Posts: 12
I put an elzetta flashlight mount and a hiviz bead on mine. I had a surefire 6pxpro that I wasn't carrying anymore. (I didn't go out and specifically buy it for the project). So $40 for the light mount and $20 for the bead. Oh and I recently picked up 6 snap caps to practice reloads. ( $28)

http://www.elzetta.com/zsmFAQ.htm

The ZSM comes with inserts to hold different diameter lights. It holds that 6px like a vise. ...and it's cheap.

http://www.hivizsights.com/products/...ights/mpb.html

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0029M2YWE

I round that out with a cheapie sling and a shell holder stock sleeve.
111t is offline  
Old October 31, 2013, 04:29 PM   #20
WV_gunner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2011
Location: WV
Posts: 623
Your gun is cheap clone of an 870. If you get a pump H&R you should've got a real H&R pump. Hard to come by though.
WV_gunner is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 12:17 AM   #21
semi_problomatic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 27, 2009
Location: Ft. Polk
Posts: 874
Not only is it cheaper, its better made as well. And some where there is a problem?

Freedom Group Incestual Money Trail: Remington (who licensed Norinco to make & import, owns Marlin -> Marlin (owned by Remington, owns H&R) -> Harrington & Richardson (make the PPP, with NEF are Norinco in the US).

Anything else?
__________________
Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...
semi_problomatic is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 10:24 AM   #22
SoilworK777
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 245
Quote:
Not only is it cheaper, its better made as well.
I find this to be true when comparing the Protector or IAC Hawk to the 870 Express models made within the last 5-7 years.

The ONLY thing I'm aware of on a Protector that isn't interchangeable with an 870 12ga is the barrel. EVERYTHING ELSE has been freely interchangeable for me.
SoilworK777 is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 12:06 PM   #23
semi_problomatic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 27, 2009
Location: Ft. Polk
Posts: 874
Not true. The lifter is different, as is the part the bolt fits onto and perhaps the bolt... (rem 870's have a flex tab and the parts don't interchange unless you swap the whole assembly) The extractor is different, the triggerguard is different and made of metal. Also, with the barrel lug being further out you don't have to add support clamps when you add a mag tube extender. The barrels have had better QC or at least less problems with stuck rounds, and the protector comes as a 5+1 compared to 870's 4+1.... The recievers themselves are different, the NEF's being thicker. Magazine tubes are slightly wider on NEF's.... What parts are the same? The stock? The bolt itself (minus a few parts...)
__________________
Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...
semi_problomatic is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 02:08 PM   #24
SoilworK777
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 245
Quote:
Not true.
I have a Remington 870 as well as an IAC Hawk 982. I've swapped the trigger groups and the bolts as well as the bolt carriers. I didn't have any issues with either of them cycling.

You may be right on the extractor, I may test changeover ability this weekend. I would think that the extractor spring is the same length.

I've heard that the receivers are thicker, but never measured mine. Are they thicker to the OD or ID?
SoilworK777 is offline  
Old November 1, 2013, 03:42 PM   #25
semi_problomatic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 27, 2009
Location: Ft. Polk
Posts: 874
Being able to swap and being the same parts are completely different. My NEF's bolt carrier is a different design and shape to the 870's. Same with the lifter. 870's have flex tabs and the bolt carrier was made to go with that. You can swap a pre flex tab lifter/bolt carrier/bolt with a flex tab lifter/carrier/bolt...but you cannot swap just the lifter, or just the carrier between them. So they are different, but they interchange. See what I'm saying? The NEF uses a different design to accomplish the same goal.

The 870's trigger guard is plastic. The NEF's is steel. Steel>plastic. Sure, same size and design, but BETTER.

Back to the bolt. While they interchange, the extractor on an 870 is metal injection molded, the NEF is machined steel. BETTER

The lifter design itself is simplier on the NEF and doesn't involve a cut out to allow the rim to pop out incase of a miss feed. BETTER
__________________
Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...
semi_problomatic is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13470 seconds with 7 queries