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Old June 25, 2015, 12:23 PM   #1
dyl
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Recoil impulse + shooting fast

I'd like to get a better idea of how those of you who shoot fairly well (IDPA, IPSC etc) have decided to manage recoil impulse with a fast return to a good sight picture.

To date, I've seen at least 3 different focuses.

1. looser - Let the muzzle flip, focus on letting the wrist/muzzle return back to sight picture. Time your trigger pull according to cadence.

2. muscular control - grip as hard as you can, tension in the fingers, wrist, tension in the forearms, arms, shoulder, and torso. Resistance is good.

3. Something in between.

These 3 options are less clear than they could be because they do not mention other fundamentals. My goal is to find the approach.
Do any of you purposely allow a particular muscle group to be looser and have this lead to faster accurate shooting?

I tend towards muscular control. The muzzle doesn't rise much however because I am rigid I find I have to consciously lower my arms down to re-establish sight picture. I get the feeling competitors do not have to consciously chase their sight picture as much with every follow up. Or do they?
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Old June 25, 2015, 03:45 PM   #2
BigMikey76
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Someone posted this video for me when I mentioned some flyers when doing double taps. I found it very helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJrA7wMXuuQ
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Old June 25, 2015, 05:24 PM   #3
MrBorland
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4. Something else. A neutral grip.

Though a firm grip is good, you can't overcome recoil with muscle.

Recoil isn't what slows things down - what really slows things down is having to re-establish a new sight picture between shots, and this happens when your grip isn't neutral and the muzzle doesn't come back to the same place after every shot.

In contrast, a neutral grip is a grip that allows the muzzle to return to the same place each time, so the shooter merely verifies (subconsciously) sight alignment before breaking the shot.
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Old June 25, 2015, 06:37 PM   #4
mete
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The gun should not move in the hand .If it does , each round will have a different point of impact !! Youn canbend your elbows , then the arms will bend more as you shoot but without the gun moving in the hand
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Old June 25, 2015, 08:43 PM   #5
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Fast fire, slow fire, any fire, hold the gun as tight as you can without shaking and follow through.
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Old June 26, 2015, 07:39 AM   #6
Mobuck
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Firm grip(not a death grip) for most handguns is adequate.
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Old June 26, 2015, 11:25 AM   #7
dyl
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Thanks for the replies.

I have seen that video before and I like it. I have been shooting with the same or similar high thumbs forward grip - I do think I could lock my left wrist a bit more.

I suspect this is issue is hard to describe in words - both the question and the answer. When new shooters have a question regarding recoil management, they are usually understood as meaning "this muzzle flips too much, it startles me, and I'm losing balance" and the answer becomes rightly - stance/posture, grip. Responding to an issue of physical/mental discomfort or safety.

Recoil management with regards to a quick return to a good sight picture is a little less talked about...perhaps because not everyone wants to shoot well faster.

Neutral grip. Sounds like what I want. How do I do it? Or rephrased - what factors did you have to adjust to establish a neutral grip? Is it degrees of grip strength of the hands?
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Old June 26, 2015, 11:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Recoil isn't what slows things down - what really slows things down is having to re-establish a new sight picture between shots, and this happens when your grip isn't neutral and the muzzle doesn't come back to the same place after every shot.
This you want to use a firm grip with the gun lined up then you train the muscles to return the gun there, repeat as necessary
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Old June 26, 2015, 12:24 PM   #9
dyl
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Thanks again. I'm guessing even after I train it for 1 pistol, it would change based on pistol due to different balance/weight/recoil impulse?
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Old June 26, 2015, 12:50 PM   #10
g.willikers
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Differences between guns is most noticeable in grip angles and triggers.
Grip angles can have effect on sight alignment and point of impact.
Triggers can vary in takeup and reset.
For myself, the other stuff mentioned doesn't seem to be as important.
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Old June 26, 2015, 01:23 PM   #11
mavracer
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Quote:
I'm guessing even after I train it for 1 pistol, it would change based on pistol due to different balance/weight/recoil impulse?
At first yes, but given enough shooting with different guns and it just won't matter much you just bring it back to where it was.
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Old June 26, 2015, 09:40 PM   #12
Dragline45
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Proper grip trumps all, and I don't mean how tight you grip the gun even though that does come into play. A gun will recoil to the path of least resistance. The more area of the gun you can cover with your grip the less the gun will recoil. You see alot of people use a standard revolver grip on auto's which leaves the left side of the gun open, therefore the gun recoiling to the path of least resistance will recoil up and to the left. Switch to a thumbs forward grip and you are covering that portion of the gun and the gun will now recoil straight up as opposed to up and to the left. As far as your elbows, you don't want them straight out where they are flexed all the way forward, you want them at an ever so slight bend right before that point of flexing. As far as how hard you should grip the gun, you don't want to death grip the thing so hard that it's shaking in your hand. Generally you want to use more grip strength on your support hand than the one holding the actual gun. Of course you could have the best pistol shooter write you out instructions and they wont do you any good till you go out there and experiment and practice, so you will have to find out for yourself what works best.

Quote:
I'm guessing even after I train it for 1 pistol, it would change based on pistol due to different balance/weight/recoil impulse?
Not really, we are talking about fundamentals here which transfer over from one pistol to the next. As mentioned biggest thing to overcome between different handguns is grip angle which affects quick sight alignment. Draw two pistols from a holster with vastly different grip angles and try to get your sights on target as fast as possible, both guns will point a bit differently because of the grip angle and how it sits in your hand.
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