The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 22, 2012, 08:25 PM   #1
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
Scary Joint Federal and State Combined Case

This case itself does not involve firearms, but the concepts involved could easily be. The Feds and local police in Massachusetts are trying to seize a motel via civil forfiture, in which burden of proof seems to shift to the defendant. Laws developed to combat piracy are being twisted for government use to fill coffers.

How long until these tactics get used by antis against ranges, gun shops, and gunsmithing facilities?

George Will: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...obref=obinsite
MLeake is offline  
Old May 22, 2012, 09:35 PM   #2
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 6,297
I have always opposed civil forfeiture laws, and this case is just another example of why.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old May 22, 2012, 09:43 PM   #3
KyJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 7,530
While there's a place for civil forfeiture, this doesn't appear to be one. Yes, there are pirates here but they appear to be in government employ.
__________________
Jim's Rules of Carry: 1. Any gun is better than no gun. 2. A gun that is reliable is better than a gun that is not. 3. A hole in the right place is better than a hole in the wrong place. 4. A bigger hole is a better hole.
KyJim is online now  
Old May 23, 2012, 09:57 AM   #4
thallub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 2,075
Its one of the benefits the failed "war on drugs".
thallub is offline  
Old May 23, 2012, 11:28 AM   #5
HarrySchell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 30, 2007
Location: South CA
Posts: 548
http://volokh.com/2012/05/21/adventu...et-forfeiture/

Above piece has more information on this case and another covered by George Will. Ilya Somin is a constitutional scholar and provides some interesting comments.

The apparent liberty with which local, state and federal agencies can use these statutes as a pretext to fund themselves creates an inherent conflict of interest, IMO. As other people's money runs out, such seizures may become more prevalent.
__________________
Loyalty to petrified opinions never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul in this world — and never will.
— Mark Twain
HarrySchell is offline  
Old June 5, 2012, 10:39 AM   #6
jimpeel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 1999
Location: Longmont, CO, USA
Posts: 4,458
All of the civil forfeiture laws name five things specifically, all of which are legal to own and possess except one -- cash, real property, vehicles, firearms, and drugs.

The laws are written in language using supposition and innuendo such as "knew or should have known" that the alleged activity was going on. In some cases, the reporting of the activity to the police is used as proof that the person whose property is being charged knew of the activity. Case in point:

In L.A., a man owned a vacant lot in which drug users and sellers congregated. He reported this to the police and was told they were powerless to stop the activity and he would have to fence the area. He did. The druggies cut the fence and continued their activities. The property was seized under asset forfeiture and he was told that he knew that the activity was occurring and he did nothing to stop it. They used his police report as proof that he was aware of the activity.

There are many horror stories of this type and http://www.fear.org (Forfeiture Endangers American Rights) fights these laws every day.

The Seizure and Forfeiture laws have turned our police into bounty hunters. THIS CASE is ongoing now, and involves the taking of children to incentivise people to hand over their cash. The feds are now involved; but why it takes from 2008 until now to stop these acts is beyond me.
__________________
Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm.

"Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare

"Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed"
-- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey
jimpeel is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.06854 seconds with 9 queries