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Old April 23, 2012, 01:34 PM   #1
Al Norris
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SAF sues New Mexico over legal resident alien CCW permits

Hot on the heels of their win in MA, the SAF has announced that they have filed suit in New Mexico to have those portions of their CCW law ruled unconstitutional, as they pertain to legal resident aliens.

The SAF news release is here.

I'll add the case to the list as soon as I can find it... If anyone else finds it first, please post all the details here.
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Old April 23, 2012, 04:31 PM   #2
2damnold4this
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I hope the SAF wins the suit. I don't understand why legal residents aliens aren't afforded the same right as citizens to protect themselves and their families.


Edit to add the word same

Last edited by 2damnold4this; April 24, 2012 at 10:25 AM.
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Old April 23, 2012, 05:03 PM   #3
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Looks like it's up on PACER, but I don't have an account.

Given the SAF's victory in Massachusetts, I expect the DPS to fold in short order.
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Old April 23, 2012, 06:09 PM   #4
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Good hunting.
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Old April 23, 2012, 07:33 PM   #5
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Complaint is here: http://www.archive.org/download/gov....249540.1.0.pdf. In a brief 9 pages, it spells out everything that needs to be said.

Here's most of the entry I'll be putting up, right after this post:

72. Jackson et al v. King et al: Case #12-cv-00421. Filed 04-21-2012. Seeks to invalidate New Mexico CCW law as it affects the inability of lawful resident aliens to obtain a permit (NMSA 1978, §29-19-4(A)(1) of the New Mexico Concealed Handgun Carry Act). David Sigale and Paul Kienzle, attorneys for the plaintiffs.

Internet Archive
Justia Summary
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Old April 23, 2012, 07:47 PM   #6
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I understand when these suits are won, the amount of $'s involved is typically some trivial amount, $10. Why wouldn't the permanent resident (or other SAF client) claim their 2nd Amen. rights are worth $1B? Wouldn't that likely be a much bigger deterrent? What am I missing here?
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Old April 23, 2012, 07:54 PM   #7
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What are you missing?

Establishing precedent and some of the boundaries of the 2A right.
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Old April 23, 2012, 08:03 PM   #8
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Thanks Al. Is there not typically also a monetary damage claimed?
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Old April 23, 2012, 10:20 PM   #9
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How does a person who has been denied a permit to carry a firearm but who has never been assaulted or injured in an incident where having had a firearm might have made a difference show that he/she has suffered any economically quantifiable loss that an award of some dollars would make right?
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Old April 23, 2012, 10:48 PM   #10
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Perceived fear?
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Old April 24, 2012, 09:31 AM   #11
maestro pistolero
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I'm hoping that it will soon follow, that if alien residents may not be denied a license, that out of state residents may also not be disqualified on that basis. Are you listening, NY, NJ, HI, etc.?
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Old April 24, 2012, 09:59 AM   #12
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On the resident alien question, we have the following:

SD - Smith v. Nelson - Win at District. Permanent Injunction was issued.
NE - Gonzales v. City of Omaha - Win, Temp Injunction issued. City changed law.
MA - Fletcher et al v. Haas - Win at District (clock is still ticking on appeals).

On the firearms outside the home question:

MD - Woolard v. Sheridan - Win at District. Appealed.
NC - Batemen v. Perdue - Win at District.
WV - US v. Williams - He lost the case, but not before the Judge agreed that outside the home was a right.

On the visitor from another State question:

CO - Peterson v. Martinez - Awaiting a decision at the 10th.

Precedent is beginning to stack up.
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Old April 24, 2012, 10:07 AM   #13
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I heard about this yesterday, and am very glad that it has happened. I am looking forward to SAF's success, and NM having to change its requirements accordingly.
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Old April 24, 2012, 10:21 AM   #14
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You know, I'm happy the SAF is helping to fight for the rights of legal aliens BUT

There are entire states of born and bred american citizens that cannot in any way shape or form legally protect themselves with any kind of weapon. I guess I just feel a little left out, like they could maybe be doing more to help us in the freedom hating states.

I know they need to pick their battles and go win when and where they KNOW they can but I guess I just feel like although this is nobel cause that maybe they should focus that attention places like here, cali, and IL first...
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Old April 24, 2012, 10:45 AM   #15
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RedBowTies88, instead of waiting for someone else to do something to improve the laws of your state, you could contact the organizations who have a track record in this area and volunteer to become a plaintiff in a lawsuit. RedBowTies88 v. New Jersey has a certain...panache.
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Old April 24, 2012, 11:07 AM   #16
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Oh I certinally try to do my part and am a member of some groups. and to the SAF's credit there is an ongoing lawsuit against the state of NJ at this moment.

I just feel like were lacking a national outrage. It seems like the answer from most people is "move to a free state" that would be nice however its a viable option for all of us. Some of us are tied to a business or family members or both and cant just up and move.

I guess what I'm getting at is I don't understand why more people aren't genuinly upset that their fellow american citizens are being denied their rights. I feel like if we banded together more as a country that maybe it would help shed some light on poor ole us in the commy states

BTW Don, I love your home state...they were kind enough to issue me a non resident CCW permit so i can carry on vacation Its a good feeling to be free. even if i only get it once every few months
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Old April 24, 2012, 03:11 PM   #17
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I hate to say it, but the reason there aren't more people upset about NJ, NY, Cali for example is "it's not happening to them". The other reason is the sheeple here in NJ keep electing the same bunch of ignorant yahoos who support these laws.

The majority of NJ residents don't give a damn about guns or gun rights, so we aren't a priority. I think it falls under "You can lead a horse to water, but..."
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Old April 24, 2012, 08:07 PM   #18
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I completely agree with you, but you know you would think people would be more upset.

What if I just walked on over to texas and took you right to carry a firearm open or consealed? took all your mags over 10/15 rounds and made any pistol grip shotgun or rifle with a threaded muzzle/bayo lug/moveable stock illegal? what if you could only buy one gun per month? and that only after waiting 1-6 months for the permit to do so and pay 20 dollars for the permit you just waited for.

You as a free man would be awfully upset...but it seems like "hey its not happening to me and they can move" mindset if stopping there from being a massive outrage and outcry.

I wish more people truly understood what it was like to not be free to protect yourself or your family. It's not just an inconvience its an injustice.
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Old April 24, 2012, 08:17 PM   #19
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Quote:
I hope the SAF wins the suit. I don't understand why legal residents aliens aren't afforded the same right as citizens to protect themselves and their families.
Funny thing, they really do. What they aren't getting is the permit to carry concealed. They can own guns. They can open carry guns. They can carry in their vehicles.

Quote:
I'm hoping that it will soon follow, that if alien residents may not be denied a license, that out of state residents may also not be disqualified on that basis. Are you listening, NY, NJ, HI, etc.?
Probably not. They won't really care one way or the other until suits are filed and then they will address the issues in court. Just because something happens in one state does not mean it will happen in another and they do know that. Moreover, a change in the law brought about by a court decision isn't that big of a deal. It isn't like the state will have a damaged reputation to worry about.

Quote:
The majority of NJ residents don't give a damn about guns or gun rights, so we aren't a priority. I think it falls under "You can lead a horse to water, but..."
..., but horses don't vote and getting them to drink water won't address the gun rights issue.
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Old April 25, 2012, 07:44 AM   #20
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I wish more people truly understood what it was like to not be free to protect yourself or your family. It's not just an inconvience its an injustice.
Although it seems trite on the surface, if you really feel that strongly about it, make plans not to stay there. I know it's not an easy thing to consider for several reasons and I don't think it's as simple as saying "just move," when it comes down to it- plan on getting out.

As someone originally from MA, I feel your plight. But I got the heck out of there and don't like going back even to visit. And if you do leave, write many letters to the attorney general, governor, DPS equivalent, senators and reps telling them why you left and they no longer have your tax money.

You have to look also at the fundamental differences in shall issue and may issue. NM is shall issue and the only dis-qualifier an otherwise non-prohibited legal alien faces is lack of citizenship status. May issue involves a whole host of other issues.
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Old April 25, 2012, 09:31 AM   #21
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But then where does that leave my brethen who are still here?

I myself cannot leave as I'm tied to family and a family business I'm working for/going to be taking over one day. I can't just up and leave as much as I would like to. No to mention I LOVE where I live...down here in the nice part of jersey right on the ocean where there's not too many people and I have plently of land. Far from the "armpit of america" that most people (accuratly might I add) descibe the most well known part of NJ


I know the easy way out is to move, but thats not the answer. The answer if restoring our right just to that of every other red blooded american. Not simply just "accept" that this is the way it will always be and write off all those dealing with this terrible plight.
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Old April 25, 2012, 04:04 PM   #22
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Then as Don mentioned above, become even more active than you are now. If you really and truly want to get something done, maybe just being a member of some groups isn't enough.

You can consider filing a lawsuit. You can consider running for some type of office. I'm sure there are other things as well.

Otherwise, if you're not willing or able to do that, be happy with the things you mentioned and take comfort in them.
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Old April 25, 2012, 05:01 PM   #23
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The lawsuit I've considered however after speaking with alan gura at an NJ2AS meeting it was not advised at this time.

I don't have the time for public office as was said I'm working on keeping a family business afloat and in this economic culture that makes up nearly all of my time.

I think more of a national focus would help. I don't think that average joe CCW holder in x state in real america understands what it means to be a resident of one of the few that tramples on your rights.
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Old April 27, 2012, 08:54 AM   #24
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I don't understand why legal residents aliens aren't afforded the same right as citizens to protect themselves and their families.
Are the rights guaranteed us by the Constitution of the United States of America applicable to non-citizens as well as citizens?

As much as I hate to admit it, I really don’t know for sure. Off the cuff, I’d say no. Legal resident aliens may be able to live, work, and play in this country, but they still are not citizens. Do they have all of the same rights as those of us that are natural born, or have applied for and received full legal citizenship?

If so, why? What good would become of gaining citizenship if you already have all the rights of the Constitution?

Should legal residents aliens even be allowed to own firearms if the Constitution does not apply to them? I say no. Get your citizenship!

Someone educate me please.
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Old April 27, 2012, 10:00 AM   #25
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It probably has something to do with these words.

Quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights...,
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