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Old August 25, 2013, 07:35 AM   #1
2damnold4this
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This season of Top Shot

I'm really enjoying the sportsmanship on this season of Top Shot. It seems like everyone wants to see the others shoot their best. The shoot off between Brian Zins, William Bethards and Chris Cerino was a great example of sportsmanship.
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Old August 25, 2013, 09:18 AM   #2
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I particularly appreciated the last shot Gunny chose. He could have chosen a much easier shot, but he made a respectable challenge.
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Old August 25, 2013, 10:19 AM   #3
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Yeah, this season the shows are more like what going to real matches is like.
Very enjoyable to watch.
Too bad the series is coming to a close.
Maybe someone else will pick up the idea.
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Old August 25, 2013, 11:50 AM   #4
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I haven't seen anything about it being canceled. Nothing showed up on Google.I think the last year or two the decision to renew came a little late so my guess would be that the decision has not yet been made. This weeks episode is listed as the season finale, not the series finale. Anyone have a link showing otherwise?
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Old August 26, 2013, 06:04 PM   #5
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All the drama and other BS presented on previous seasons made me not even think about watchin' this season.
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Old August 26, 2013, 07:04 PM   #6
Gbro
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[QUOTE][QUOTE]I particularly appreciated the last shot Gunny chose. He could have chosen a much easier shot, but he made a respectable challenge.
OR, he could have put up an imposable challenge and simply missed it. He was ahead of William. Very admirable the way he competed.
And William Hi-diddle-diddle was a good competitor.
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Old August 26, 2013, 10:43 PM   #7
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I'm thinking Chris Cerino will win, though I'd love to see Gary Quesenberry make it to Final 2 and win. I sort of see him as the underdog. I thought the season was great. Since the competition was based entirely on skill and the marksmen all seemed to respect each other, there wasn't any excessive drama involved, and the marksmen all seemed to have a good time.

I wish I was talented enough to apply for one of the regular seasons, but I don't have experience with many different types of firearms, and also can't seem to get hold of enough ammo to become proficient in the ones that I DO have!
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Old August 26, 2013, 11:08 PM   #8
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The choices are not all about proficiency, just about marketability. This season had some of the better shooters, but very few of the really top shooters would ever consider going on the show due to the contract constraints they impose.
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Old August 26, 2013, 11:23 PM   #9
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I hope it sticks around.

I actually enjoyed the previous seasons, even with all the typical "reality show" garbage. This season, with all eliminations and challenges based purely on shooting performance, was far, FAR better, but I wonder if it is playing as well with those who aren't as much into guns and shooting as I am.

If anyone has an "in" with the Bass Pro brass, asking them is probably the best way to find out if the show will be continued.
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Old August 27, 2013, 09:50 AM   #10
g.willikers
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Maybe it's time to start loading up the History Channel and Bass Pro Shop with emails requesting the series to continue.
And with the same format as the past season.
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Old August 27, 2013, 11:46 AM   #11
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Quote:
The choices are not all about proficiency, just about marketability. This season had some of the better shooters, but very few of the really top shooters would ever consider going on the show due to the contract constraints they impose.
Truly top shooters have nothing to gain from being on the show. Do you think Mike Seeklander is more highly respected for having been the first shooter knocked-out, than he was prior to being on the show?
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Old August 27, 2013, 12:12 PM   #12
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Truly top shooters have nothing to gain from being on the show. Do you think Mike Seeklander is more highly respected for having been the first shooter knocked-out, than he was prior to being on the show?
He said it took him a year to recover from the blow that dealt him. Only unknowns can really benefit, and very few have been able to hang in action competitions if they were not already doing so.
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Old August 27, 2013, 12:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Truly top shooters have nothing to gain from being on the show.
Yeah, but you have to respect the top shooters who put their reputations and skills on the line, as they do have quite a bit to lose, at least in their own minds. Watching the so-called world-class shooters come in and strike out early and often makes one wonder about their capabilities.

I think Brian Zins showed that he can do much more than just dominate Bullseye competitions (of course his time in the Marines demonstrated that as well).
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Old August 27, 2013, 12:36 PM   #14
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What has helped Zins versus the other specialists is trigger control. The top pistol guys of course can shoot, but they are wired to go fast "at the beep" and it is so hard for them to slow down, even when they know they are supposed to.

I have had the benefit of shooting with some of the top names, and usually, when they crash and burn (would still be a great run for a normal person) it is because they could not be patient enough to have the trigger control they needed for a more difficult shot. The "danger shots" for most USPSA pistol shooters are 15 yards and out. That is not much!

Speed pistol shooters won't do well on that format whereas a bullseye shooter or a long range shooter can excel. That said, Zins has been impressive and you can see that fire just under the surface that also makes him a great competitor.

I think you will all enjoy the finale.
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Old August 27, 2013, 02:39 PM   #15
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Oh... MarkCO and his hidden message. He knows more than he's letting on! By nature I have a curious personality, and in the past I would have been doing whatever I could to find out spoilers for the season (basically who the final 2 and winner were), but this time I'll just wait until tomorrow (Wed) night and be surprised like the REST of us who haven't already learned the outcome.
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Old August 29, 2013, 09:30 AM   #16
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So, what did you think?

The big deal to me was that while some physicality was present in prior challenges, the 1st and 2nd challenges HIGHLY favored a track star over a shooter. The targets, weapons and distances presented in challenge 1 and 2 can be hit by pretty much any middle of the road shooter 1 for 1 in just a few seconds...if the running was not there. While Zins and Gunny, even Chris took it well, those two challenges were built for Phil. Of course, I am not implying anything nefarious, and they have had similar challenges, but the younger and more fit shooter was at a significant advantage. In a tactical scenario, that is the way it always is, but this was not top SWAT operator.

The final four did consist of a good group of people and I would wager the final four of season 5, in a team format, would stomp the prior four Top Shot winners. It does make me smile that the finale were two decent 3gunners.
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Old August 29, 2013, 01:49 PM   #17
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Interesting that previous challenges weeded out most of the younger guys and the top four were mostly mid-40s and older except for Phil. Then the final four competition is suddenly more physical speed/endurance than previous challenges.

I think the steel plate was one of the best challenges as it significantly penalized misses.

Gary did himself in with fumbling on loading the SVT-40, and Chris fumbled way too much on the crossbow. And Gunny somehow missed too many times on the AK47. So they all lost out on actual shooting events, but the running sure made it hard on the older guys. I think Phil did win fairly but it was skewed to his youthful athletic favor even though that was not the ultimate deciding factor this time.
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Old August 29, 2013, 02:15 PM   #18
OakleyAnna
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I'm wondering how someone without military or police experience would be able to gain experience with ARs or even many of the other weapons that are used?

As far as the show, I'm happy for Phil, though I agree with some of the comments here that speed/agility played a huge part in the first 2 challenges.

Also, I'm sure it was because of the editing, but I felt a bit sorry for Phil that he couldn't whoop it up and truly enjoy his victory because he didn't want to over-celebrate to make Cerino feel bad.
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Old August 29, 2013, 02:29 PM   #19
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There are a lot of places you can shoot controlled classes of weapons, of which the AR is not. Neither is an AK.

I shot a grenade launcher, IR scoped CCR, FNH SAW, NVG with a full-auto SBR from PWS just in the last match. I figure I had close to $250K of mil grade weapons in my hands as stage guns during the match. The FNH 3Gun match always has toys to try out.

There are companies that also rent out weapons to use. Using the semi-auto clone or trainer for most of the mil grade weapons is the cheapest easiest way to gain the platform familiarity.

A lot of 3Gunners are military and LE. The Marine Combat Shooting Team works matches and they are great guys. Several of them are foreign weapons instructors. If asked, they will get you squared away on the general manual of arms for several platforms. After a point, there are only so many variations on a theme and then you just go with what you learned on similar platforms.

You could always make Knob Hill your vacation for the year too.
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Old August 29, 2013, 04:57 PM   #20
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I went back and timed it. Even if Gary was fast and flawless on the SVT, he would have still been last by several seconds. The fumbles didn't have anything to do with it.
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Old August 30, 2013, 10:10 AM   #21
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OakleyAnna,

There's plenty of rifle training and matches around.
Most of the training facilities supply the equipment.
For far less cost, there's also plenty of video and online instruction to start.
Then buy the rifle of your choice and go to local matches.
They can be found on brianenos.com, as well as the web sites for the sanctioning organizations, like uspsa.com, idpa.com, 3gunnation.com, and at many local clubs.
If matches aren't appealing, you can practice on your own, using abbreviated stage designs easily found on the web.
If you want to do it, the opportunities are there.
No need to join the Marines.
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Old August 30, 2013, 05:36 PM   #22
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yep, easy enough to get (for now). Hell our Walmart has 3 AR-15s for sale right now.
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Old August 31, 2013, 07:39 PM   #23
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This was an excellent season and I enjoyed it.

I wonder if I could do some of the challenges - certainly not running around - you would still be watching to see me finish.

Good job.
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Old September 1, 2013, 10:22 AM   #24
g.willikers
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Yeah, being a top shot is only part of it.
Gotta' be in terrific shape, too.
That's what the 3 guns folks always advise for their games.
I'd need oxygen tanks staged through out the course to make it to the end.
Maybe an electric scooter, too.
The moon would be coming up by the time I'd finish.
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Old September 2, 2013, 12:34 PM   #25
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I don't really mind too much about the physical parts of the challenges, mostly because while favoring the young and spry contestants, everybody at this point knew there would be some form of running and/or obstacles in the finale. It is season 5 and they all were on the show before. And while I would have a tough time doing some of those challenges as fast as the contestants (being fairly young, but not incredibly athletic), I definitely understand the thought process of building their heart rate, stress, and adrenaline to make the shots harder.

However, I wonder at the fairness of using the crossbow in the final match, when they didn't get any training sessions and it was only used in an elimination challenge that Phil was in and Chris was not. Here you clearly have one contestant that was given a decent amount of time with a qualified trainer in manipulating and shooting the weapon, while the other competitor might never have touched that particular crossbow in his life.

The producers would have done better to use only weapons from the regualr challenges instead of the elimination ones. I know the elimination challenges tended to have harder to use or more interesting weapons (like the Hotchkiss), but it really puts the players at a disadvantage when one of them has used it and practiced with it and the other has not. The other option is to use firearms/weapons that neither contestant has used, making it very difficult but with a level playing field.

Don't know if this bothered anybody else, but seems like Chris got a little bit of the short end of the stick on that. Of course, it may not have affected the outcome at all, since he did have time to get in at least 3-4 shots for 3 targets before Phil moved on ahead.
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