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Old April 18, 2012, 09:20 PM   #26
Rampant_Colt
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Marshall and Sanow? LoL.. Not bad for fictional reading..
At least Doc Roberts doesn't have an agenda to sell some [fictional] books
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Old April 18, 2012, 09:38 PM   #27
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Critical Defense looks to be the best. And no I don't write books or Own a AR-15. but I did stay in a holiday in express.
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Old April 18, 2012, 09:39 PM   #28
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Evan Marshall, a "been there, done that" kind of guy

Ugh...

I'm going to take advice on bullet selection from a guy who claims he has expert insight on the JFK assasination and knows conclusively that Lee Harvey Oswald never killed anyone?


Hooooo-Kay !



I think I'll stick to watching tnoutdoors9 videos on YouTube instead... thank you very much.



.
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Old April 18, 2012, 09:47 PM   #29
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Best 9mm ammo for defense

I think any of the top shelf hollow points would be "best."

Gold Dots
Golden Sabers
Critical Defense
Buffalo Bore
Double Tap
Federal HST
Cor-Bon
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Old April 18, 2012, 10:00 PM   #30
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My ccw is a Kel Tec PF-9. Given how particular they are about what you feed them, I'm having to try different things, to see what cycles reliably.

According to quite a few owners, they typically cycle 115 gr, standard pressure JHPs without any trouble.

When I hit the shop today, I picked up:
1 box Speer 115 gr Gold Dots
1 box Speer 124 gr +P Gold Dots

I saw ballistic results from a series of tests with rounds fired from PF-9s, and those two had good penetration and expansion. Interestingly, the 'bloom' pattern of Gold Dots seems to look more like a star than a circle. This is different than a lot of JHPs that I've seen. Many of them look like they roll open, where Gold Dots (both kind) come out looking like they peeled open.
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Old April 18, 2012, 10:30 PM   #31
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Winchester Ranger T-Series 127gr +P+, Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P, and Cor-Bon 125gr +P JHP in that order. I feel that a 124-127gr bullet at 1200fps or faster represents the best balance of velocity, energy, expansion, momentum and penetration in a 9mm.
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Old April 18, 2012, 11:27 PM   #32
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124 or 147 FMJ. It chambers with no problem, I practice a lot with it and I can hit what I'm aiming at.
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Old April 19, 2012, 02:43 AM   #33
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Evan Marshall, 9x19mm selections: 124gr size....

I've read many of Marshall's research & writings since the mid 1980s. From what I know, Evan Marshall earned a PhD, retired from the Detroit MI police department(where he worked in homicide & SRT/SWAT). He wrote in a magazine about how he was shot in the line of duty(lower leg). Marshall's later work & material is a bit questionable. He had high praise for Uzi type SMGs in the early 1990s & the publication's editor added the fact that Evan Marshall was on the firearm company's LE sales staff.
Edwin Sanow is more creditable, IMO. He is a veteran LE officer & has wrote about many police subjects for years.

As for the 9mm ammunition, I'd buy factory new 124gr size rounds then use milspec 124 grain 9x19mm FMJ or ball for practice-training. Some wts may be different but not by much.
I also suggest using PowRball or Winchester 9mmNATO FMJ in spare mags.
Feeding & cycles shouldn't be problems in a protracted gunfight, .
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Old April 19, 2012, 03:22 AM   #34
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I now carry the Federal HST +P 124 grain in both my 19 and 26. I used to carry the Federal 9BPLE +P+ 115gr JHP. Still have a couple boxes of that load. Never felt under-gunned, but ammo fashions change and the HST seems to be getting a pretty good "real world" record.
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Old April 19, 2012, 06:42 AM   #35
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I'd shoot several that do well with the FBI's test protocols. The one that shoots the best and is reliable and available gets the nod.
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Old April 19, 2012, 08:25 AM   #36
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If anyone is interested in carrying 147gr and wants a practice ammo that emulates the premium stuff pretty closely - the Speer Lawman 147gr does that.

I think there's a thread here somewhere that talks about it.
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Old April 19, 2012, 08:38 AM   #37
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Any 124 gr HP that gets round 1200 fps. I'm not brand loyal, but have been happy with some Speer Gold Dot +p's that I bought in bulk a few years ago.
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Old April 19, 2012, 08:59 AM   #38
Green Giant
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no particular order...

Federal 124 gr +P HST
Speer 124 gr +P GDHP
Winchester 127 gr +P+ Ranger T
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Old April 19, 2012, 10:12 AM   #39
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Critical Duty 135gr +P, FBI Protocol tests(T&E)...

If you are a "Jello Junkie" , the new Hornady Critical Duty 135gr +P meets those requirements. The company media video explains the engineering of the Critical Duty line in detail.
I looked into buying a few boxes in early 2012 but it was out of stock.
New lots seem to be available with most well known firearm/outdoor websites.
MidwayUSA.com, NatchezSS.com, Graf's, etc.
I got a 25rd box of standard Golden Saber 124gr JHP +P but plan to shoot it up in a few months, then buy 2/3 boxes of Hornady Critical Duty.
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Old April 19, 2012, 10:47 AM   #40
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I could be wrong but I thought it was a Ed Sanow who coined the term "Jello Junkie"
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Old April 19, 2012, 10:57 AM   #41
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tnoutdoors9 review of the Hornady 135gr Critical Duty +P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJZFZFmBKa0
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Old April 19, 2012, 04:10 PM   #42
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THIEF! THIEF!

I always credit gun writer & highly noted use of force trainer: Massad Ayoob, www.massadayoobgroup.com , with the term: Jello Junkie.

Ayoob also says; "morgue monster" or a gun owner/armed professional who uses court records/ME reports/crime scene data for selecting a sidearm round or caliber.

There is much credit to be given to real world stats/documented use, but as in the Critical Duty line or rounds like the HST or T-Series/Ranger T, R&Ds offer a lot.

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Old April 19, 2012, 07:31 PM   #43
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My Kahr PM 9 runs anything I load into it but it LOVES Speer Gold Dots 124gr. +P . So thats what I fill the magazines with........WVleo
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Old April 19, 2012, 09:24 PM   #44
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Sorry, double post.

The 2nd one must better.

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Old April 19, 2012, 09:30 PM   #45
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When you plan to use +P+, consider the gun.

There is not any upper limit on the pressures generated by a +P+, since it is not a SAAMI regulated design. So how much of a magnum load do you have? You don't know and neither do I.

Your particular pistol may be quickly worn out by that unknown high-pressure cartridge. And you don't know until something breaks. And that could be very bad if it breaks just as you need it for a real-deal self-defense two way bullet exchange.

Considering the 9mm pistols I have, I will only shoot the +P+ (any brand or load) in the S&W 5906 or the Ruger 9mm Speed Six. They both have lots of steel and are rugged.

As for any other 9mm pistol, I like the 124 grain in +P, or maybe even just standard pressure for the smallest lightest ones. I'm a happy new owner of a Kahr CW9 and am still finding the upper limit of what I want to shoot in it.

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Old April 20, 2012, 02:55 AM   #46
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op

Quote:
April 17, 2012, 06:34 PM


Hey guys quick question if you do or use a 9mm for self defense what ammo would you use that would be ideal for a self defensive situation?
No response? Not even a quick one?

Buy the most expensive ones with the biggest claims, I guarantee your golden!

Who really does know? GQA
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Old April 20, 2012, 10:01 AM   #47
C0untZer0
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Quote:
When you plan to use +P+, consider the gun.
Yes for a number of reasons:

1) Some guns are not rated to even handle +P - like the Rohrbaugh R9

2) Some guns are not sprung to handle certain recoil characteristics, not new advice here but make sure you test the ammo out before entrusting your life to it. While you're being atacked is the worst time to find out that you turned your gun into a 1-shot derringer by your choice of ammo.

I have a friend who loads his full-size nine with Glaser Safety slugs. I'm sure he read somewhere that they're awesome. They're also pretty expensive to test fire, even a few of them to see if they reliably cycle your semi. He also has a box of Black Talons, so I just gave him some friendly advice that he might want to load up with the Black Talons instead.

Not only because I beleive that the Black Talons is a more effective round, but mainly because neither one of us knows if the pistol will even cycle through a whole magazine of Glasers.
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Old April 20, 2012, 10:44 AM   #48
buck460XVR
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Quote:
Hey guys quick question if you do or use a 9mm for self defense what ammo would you use that would be ideal for a self defensive situation?


Sent from Tapatalk.
Ahhhhhh, the quest for the magic bullet continues.

I suggest using the ammo that is the most reliable and most accurate outta YOUR gun. Since this varies between guns, what works well for someone else might be crap in yours. Most commercially available SD/HD ammo will have similar terminal performance when placed in COM.

Sent from the throne in my bathroom using my wife's laptop...........
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Old April 20, 2012, 03:41 PM   #49
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Black Talons...

To my knowledge, Winchester ended full production of the "Black Talon" line in the late 1990s. Bad PR & media hype forced Winchester to convert Black Talon rounds into the Ranger-T/T series handgun ammunition.

No one can buy Black Talon in the US for years, unless you know of factory rounds about 12-15 years old.

Clyde
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Old April 20, 2012, 03:58 PM   #50
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has anyone tried any of the underwood ammo gold dots...

if they are indeed gold dot bullets and loaded how they claim they are right priced for quality hd ammo.

any experience?
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