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Old April 17, 2012, 03:20 PM   #1
Kayser
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I almost hate to post this but : crimp question.

I know this thread will immediately diverge from the intent, but here's my question.

- I reload 44 magnum for a desert eagle. Hence I do -not- want to roll crimp the round. This causes noticeable feeding issues and is just a bad idea for a huge automatic like this.

- I looked at getting a real 44 magnum taper crimp die. But the description is thoroughly baffling "The Lee Taper Crimp Die is hardened steel designed to overcome crimp problems caused by poor die design. These dies offer little or no advantage when used with 1986 or newer Lee dies as the crimp angle is already a modified taper crimp. Jacketed bullets must have a crimp groove (cannelure)."

Ok, so the factory crimp die I have already roll crimps so I don't know how they can say it offers "little or no advantage" - I don't want a roll crimp, I want a taper crimp like the die name would seem to imply. Second, why would a taper crimp die say "jacketed bullets must have a crimp groove" ???

This is just baffling to me. I just want to taper crimp the rounds, not roll crimp. Why is finding the equipment for this so dang confusing.
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Old April 17, 2012, 03:31 PM   #2
g.willikers
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Redding makes taper crimp dies for revolvers, including the .44M.
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Old April 17, 2012, 03:46 PM   #3
Kayser
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Right, but I would still like to know what's up with the cryptic description of the Lee Taper Crimp Die. The word Taper is specifically in the name of the product, so.....it is a mystery.
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Old April 17, 2012, 04:05 PM   #4
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Hornady also makes one.

I've made the switch to taper crimping all my revolver cartridges.

Edit: Without a crimp groove, the jacket would get very diformed, or possibly severed.

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Old April 17, 2012, 04:24 PM   #5
Kayser
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>Edit: Without a crimp groove, the jacket would get very diformed, or possibly severed.

Ok, so this sort of thing seems to happen whenever a crimp thread comes up. Sorry to pick on you But - I don't get why this matters at all. We are talking about a TAPER crimp here. I have never had a 45 acp bullet with a cannelure, and I always taper crimp. So why in a million years would a taper crimp die require a cannelure for 44 magnum.

There really seems to be a severe terminology problem when it comes to crimps within the reloading community.
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Old April 17, 2012, 04:39 PM   #6
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Exactly. 45acp isn't really a crimp. Flare removal would be the correct term.

A true taper on a 45ACP would cause big problems since the round headspaces on the mouth rim.

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Old April 17, 2012, 05:59 PM   #7
PA-Joe
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All revolver dies are made with a rolled crimp. Your Lee instructions are generic and the reference to tapered crimp does not apply to the 44Mag.

What type of feed problems is the crimp giving you? It shouldn't unless you are trying to crimp while seating the bullet. This might spread the case a little. If you crimp as a separate operation you should not have any feed issues.
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Old April 17, 2012, 06:43 PM   #8
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Do factory 44 Mag rounds cause the same problem as your reloads? As far as I know, they are roll crimped. If they feed well, then the problem might be something other than your roll crimp.
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Old April 17, 2012, 06:58 PM   #9
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Ok a little thing to try here. Take the FCD you have. Screw it down till it touches the shell holder at the top of the stroke. Back the screw in the top off as far out as it will go. This will give you a taper crimp. Taper crimp is fancy way of saying it will remove the case flare so that it will chamber in a factory spec chamber. The screw in the top of the FCD will set the amount of crimp for after the post sizing. For my .38 spcl I seat with no crimp removing most of the case flare. Next I run through the FCD enough to remove the rest of the flare. I back the screw in the top off all of the way.
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Old April 18, 2012, 06:43 AM   #10
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You can adjust the superior Redding Profile Crimp Die to only provide a taper crimp.
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Old April 18, 2012, 11:56 AM   #11
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You Sir, are incorrect in ALL your statements and thoughts concerning a roll crimp vs taper crimp in that autoloading pistol.
IF you do not know HOW to adjust a roll crimp 44MAG die say so and maybe, MAYBE, we can help you here.
EVERY one of those pistols is test fired at the factory with 44MAG ammunition with a very TIGHT roll crimp properly applied in the correct position, and for all the correct reasons.
And so it goes...
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Old April 19, 2012, 04:42 PM   #12
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I was thinking the .44 mag ammo used in the DE pistols was roll crimped, as well.
Shouldn't be an issue... although I'm certainly not an expert in DE pistols.
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Old April 19, 2012, 06:15 PM   #13
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My guess is he is not applying enough crimp and the case mouth is hanging up on something as it cycles forward.

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Old April 19, 2012, 06:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
You Sir, are incorrect in ALL your statements and thoughts concerning a roll crimp vs taper crimp in that autoloading pistol.
IF you do not know HOW to adjust a roll crimp 44MAG die say so and maybe, MAYBE, we can help you here.
EVERY one of those pistols is test fired at the factory with 44MAG ammunition with a very TIGHT roll crimp properly applied in the correct position, and for all the correct reasons.
And so it goes...
Ol' Will knows whereof he speaks. He don't like to toot his own horn but he has probably made, or overseen the making, of more factory ammo than any ten of us will shoot in that many years.

I got on a heavy-bullet, hot load kick a few years ago and the gun I was shooting the most was a 4" Model 29-2. No, this is not a good idea. But I did it anyhow and my heaviest 300 grain loads would walk out some by the 4th or 5th round fired. Neck tension was excellent with the new Starline brass I was using. I was running a heavy roll crimp and I eventually started taper crimping them, too, right over the roll. This eliminated the problem in that particular gun. I'm not saying this is great or even recommending anyone else do it- just passing on my experience with it.

I can't think of any reason, other than that particular manufacturer's recommendation, why you couldn't run a taper crimp on a non-cannelured bullet. I taper crimp my auto pistol loads into a cast bullet about half the thickness of the case mouth, and if they were inaccurate I would have discontinued the practice long ago. I crimp the few jacketed bullets I load pretty firm too; you can feel the bump on the press handle when it sets. Again, no accuracy problems and certainly no problems with setback despite repeated trips up the feedramp.
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Old April 19, 2012, 07:16 PM   #15
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Mebbe' it's more of a problem with the belling of the case mouth.
Try only belling the cases just enough to allow the bullets to start.
Then try the roll crimp die again.
If the cases are belled out too much, the roll crimp die might not be able to do its job well.
The belling might be springing back just enough to cause the feeding problems.
Just a thought.
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Old April 21, 2012, 10:30 AM   #16
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This is from the lee web site....

"A carbide sizer inside the Carbide Factory Crimp die post-sizes the cartridge while it is crimped so every round will positively chamber freely with factory like dependability. The adjusting screw quickly and easily sets the desired amount of crimp. It is impossible to buckle the case as with a conventional bullet seating die. Trim length is not critical so this extra operation takes less time than it would if cases were trimmed and chamfered.

Revolver dies roll crimp with no limit as to the amount. A perfect taper crimp is applied to auto-loader rounds. The crimper cannot be misadjusted to make a case mouth too small to properly head-space. A firm crimp is essential for dependable and accurate ammunition. It eliminates the problems of poor ignition of slow burning magnum powders.

If you don't see your caliber listed, check out our custom services page.
from the Lee web site....."

The second paragraph refers to there revolvers dies. I reload for the 44 mag revolver and my rounds get taper crimp. but that is the die i ordered.
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