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Old April 17, 2012, 09:02 AM   #1
Agabus
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Another Newbie...Starting out...

Ok, this may be the wrong thread...but here goes. I'm about ready to bite the bullet (pun intended)...I have read the post about read this first, equipment etc from Dave?...anyway, I only have a limited amount of funds. About $200.00...So, I'm leaning towards LEE brand. Now, my question is I don't want to buy something that will get me started and then see that I want to have either a Turret or a progressive. I think I want to get either the LEE Pro 1000 or the Load Master. But, since I am confused.....Arrgh.......This is why I am asking all of you experienced loaders.

I have requested the ABC's of reloading from our local library, should be in soon.
So, there ya have it, I think. Please advise...

Oh yeah, I have a
Glock 23 40 s&w. ....I think I might be rambling now. So, I'll check back later...Best regards to all.
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Old April 17, 2012, 05:48 PM   #2
Scharfschuetzer
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Agabus,

Welcome!

I think that you will enjoy reloading once you get started. No need to complicate things at first. There's lots of time to upgrade as time goes by. Good basic tools are just fine. Good quality gear will last you longer than you can imagine.

I've been loading for 45 years now and my go to press for just about everything is an old RCBS Rockchucker that's about 38 years old now. Yes, I've got a Dillon 550 progressive press with all the bells and whistles, but a good single stage press with lots of leverage will stand you in good stead for years to come.

By all means, read the reloading book before making any hasty decisions that may or may not work for you.
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Old April 17, 2012, 06:40 PM   #3
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With a $200 fund you would do good starting with a single stage Lee Breech Lock Challenger single stage kit (About $110 to $125 depending on where you buy it.) Add a manual (up to $25 or so), and set of dies ($30 or so) that puts you slightly under $200 without even starting on buying components.
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Old April 17, 2012, 10:01 PM   #4
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Lee Clasic Turret

It is a little more expensive than a single stage, but you will appreciate the simplicity over the progressive and the speed over the single stage. The Classic Turret is far better than the Deluxe Turret.

You can scrimp on the other stuff.

You need at least one manual. The early chapters tell you how reloading is done and the back half has recipes. But you could get by with "The ABC's of Reloading" (has instruction, but no recipes) and a couple of the $10.00 "One Caliber/One Book" series (no instruction, but lots of recipes). You can also get load recipes for free from the major bullet and powder manufacturers.

You need a Press because fingers are not strong enough to form metal.

You need dies because fingers are not precise enough to form metal.

You need a scale because eyeballs are not precise enough to mete powder. (Though Lee's $15 set of dippers can do in a pinch, Lee's $25 scale is more accurate - the dippers take practice)

Everything else can be improvised or gotten later.

Primer feed is faster and cleanter than your fingers.
Bullet puller can wait until you need to pull a bullet. You just have to put it aside until you go down to the store to get the puller.
Brass Tumbler can wait. In the meantime wipe down your brass with a soft cloth, or wash it and dry it.
Powder Measure - some people never use them.

Kempf's gun shop has what I think is the best deal on a Lee Classic Turret kit.
Classic Turret Press
Dies (the deluxe 4-die set)
Primer Feed Device (for both large and small)
Auto-Disk Powder Measure
Six plastic ammo boxes.
$210
Just add a manual ($30-$35) and a scale ($25 to $200, depending on how high-end you go, but they all are equally accurate at 0.1 grain resolution) and a manual and you are loading in fine style.

You already have eye protection, right?

Mount the press on a scrap of 2x8 and clamp it to a coffee table (padded) and spread an old sheet as a dropcloth (no powder spills or lost primers)

The money to buy 12 to 15 boxes of ammunition will buy all the above plus enough components to give you 12 to 15 boxes worth of shooting, breaking even at that point.

Good luck,

Lost Sheep
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Old April 17, 2012, 10:04 PM   #5
Lost Sheep
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Welcome and thanks for asking our advice

My first advice: Read "The ABC's of Reloading", an excellent tome on the general processes of reloading. Some people have found it a little intimidating, but just remember, handloading is not rocket science. It does involve loud noises and things that go very fast, but it is safer than driving and a lot simpler than baking a souffle or changing a tire. Just follow the directions assiduously.

Let me share with you some posts and threads I think you will enjoy. So get a large mug of coffee, tea, hot chocolate, whatever you keep on hand when you read and think and read through these.

The "sticky" thread at the top of TheFiringLine's reloading forum is good, entitled, "For the New Reloader: Equipment Basics -- READ THIS FIRST "
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=230171

The "sticky" thread at the top of TheHighRoad.com's reloading forum is good, entitled, "For the New Reloader: Thinking about Reloading; Equipment Basics -- READ THIS FIRST"
www.thehighroad.org//showthread.php?t=238214

"Budget Beginning bench you will never outgrow for the novice handloader" was informed by my recent (July 2010) repopulation of my loading bench. It is what I would have done 35 years ago if I had known then what I know now.
http://www.rugerforum.net/reloading/...andloader.html

and this one, titled "Interested in reloading"
www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543

My post, Minimalist minimal (the seventh post down)
www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=107332

Thread entitled "Newby needs help."
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=430391
My post 11 is entitled "Here's my reloading setup, which I think you might want to model")
My post 13 is "10 Advices for the novice handloader" November 21, 2010)

If you think you might go for used equipment, here is some encouragement, titled "How much to start reloading....dirt cheap! "
http://www.Thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=439810

Good luck

Lost Sheep

Last edited by Lost Sheep; April 21, 2012 at 08:31 PM. Reason: To fix the links, some didn't work.
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Old April 18, 2012, 08:54 AM   #6
Agabus
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(not yelling!)...MUCH thanks!!...I do appreciate all of your responses. I think of all of the forums out there, This is by far the most accurate. (at least what I have found)...anyway, thanks again..I will certainly check out all of the links. That is if I don't have too many to do lists from my wife...(sigh)...rt now she wants to organize for a garage sale, which can be a good thing. However, the problem is I want to get started searching out this info. But, I hope to get some more cash for what needs to done for reloading.

Ok, from what I see from your replies, my choice is either a single stage like the challenger, or a turret. Perhaps, turret is best. Since I'm on a fixed income, and not knowing what kind of income down the road, (btw, age 65)......arrgh...rambling again. Sorry...lol

Ok, best regards to all...and thanks again...

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Old April 18, 2012, 10:00 AM   #7
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I started out with the Lee breech lock single stage 50th anniversary kit. So far it still serves my needs. The only upgrades made was a balance beam scale that I could read easier, the Auto Disk powder measure and a hand held primer system, so I could watch tv or set away from the press to prime the brass. I load in batchs and can keep 5 to 10 boxes of ammo built up easily with my press.
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Old April 18, 2012, 10:51 AM   #8
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The Lee single stage Challenger breech lock kit is available from MidwayUSA for $105.99 this should be more than enough to get you started. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/121...tage-press-kit
I would recommend starting out on a single stage press simply because no matter what you upgrade to later on, you will always have a use for that single stage press. I do the majority of my loading on a turret press, but there are still operations that my old rock chucker gets used for (removing the crimp from primer pockets is one) plus I do all my loading for my deer rifle and target rifle on the single stage.

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Old April 18, 2012, 11:12 AM   #9
sob (sweet ole bill)
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Under $200

Look at Lee Classic Kits (under $40) Good loading manual (under $30) Bottle capper press (under $30 new, look at yard sales) Components powder $25, primers $32/1000, bullets $20-30/100
If you are close to being retired, this a slow way to reload , but, you should have some time. Have used Classic kits for forty years, way over 10,000 rounds and it just won't get any less expensive.
My seven kits have paid for themselves over and over. My max speed is 50 rounds in an hour.

SOB
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Old April 18, 2012, 11:23 AM   #10
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If you decide on progressive the 1000 is a pita to initially set up but runs great after that. I'd suggest used that is already set up for 40 or whatever you are going to re-load. Probably in the $150 range. Less than $200 new almost everywhere. I have had a couple and like them. Have also heard good things about the Hornady lock n load in the lower priced progressives.
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Old April 19, 2012, 08:45 AM   #11
Agabus
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Hmmm....OK, it looks like I might have more income from the garage sale. So, if I happen to have around 300-400$$...what do you all suggest??

Rock Chucker?..Hornaday?..or still LEE

Thanks...
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Old April 19, 2012, 10:16 AM   #12
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Rockchucker. I started out on a RC 28 years ago, and now have an additional single stage Corbin press and two Dillon 550 progressives. Guess what, I never did outgrow the rockchucker. I use it as much if not more than either 550.

I never had a lick of trouble with my RC press. As for a scale, many here including me will attest to the simplicity and quality of the RCBS 5-0-5 scale, which is manufactured by Ohaus.

Last edited by Edward429451; April 19, 2012 at 10:23 AM.
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Old April 21, 2012, 08:06 AM   #13
Agabus
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Still somewhat confused..

Hmmm..thanks again for all of your great input. Recently, I was at a Yahoo group, about handloading, and got some advice about not loading a Glock. Here's what I posted in response to them...BTW, they said that I should not handload for my Glock because the barrel will not handle a reload...HUH??...

ok, here's my reply

Ok....I've read all of your replies.....arrgh...:S....So, from what I read, I
should NOT load my Glock??....That is the only hand gun I have, and can afford at this time. I felt it would do all I need it to do. That said, I don't have
the income for a new barrel. My Glock is NEW. It is a Gen3...the only brass I
have for it so far is what I have personally shot. they are from Federal,
(champion? maybe)...anyway, if I have to, I will buy new brass from any of the catalogs out there, e.g. Natchezz, or Cheaper than dirt...whatever...etc. Also, I don't recall if I mentioned...Brain F..t here...I am disabled-retired. Bad Spine. Too many years as a carpet installer. That said, I have a fixed income. so, I can't hope or plan on something later, as I would if I was in my 20-30's. (age65 now). So, I hope you all can see why I don't want to make a mistake in buying something I would later regret. I would want to get something that would last me until I can't physically do it anymore. I have found that this worked well when I bought my golf clubs many years ago. ....So, what I would like to know is can I reload my glock as it is? and if so, should I plan on a single stage,or Turret,or progressive. ..... I read that some have said not to even consider the Lee Pro 1000, because it (breaks?)...or is it just a PITA?...I only mention the LEE because it is MUCH cheaper in price than the others...Also I think someone said that unless I was mechanically inclined. I think I am somewhat. I do follow instructions. However, I am not even close to being a car mechanic. ... Ok, I
think this might be enough writing for now.

But as you see, I NEED HELP!!!....Thanks again for all of the very kind
replies...


Best regards....
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Old April 21, 2012, 08:12 AM   #14
m&p45acp10+1
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I recomend the Lee Classic Turret press, add a Pro Auto Disk powder measure, and the Safety Prime system. Buy a decent scale. (Digital runs from $30 up to more than most are willing to spend. A beam scale will run for $40 up to about $150 they all work.) Dies of course, and a good manual. That will put you well under $300 and leave money to buy supplies with.

For hand gun reloading I would highly recomend the turret. It is much more efficient. With a handgun round it takes 4 pulls of the lever once the dies are set up to have a completed round.

I have been reloading for two Glocks for the past year, and half. Both shoot reloads just fine. I shoot range pick up brass. I use just a standard die set for reloading. I have never had a single problem with reliability. I do stick to plated bullets though. I have not shot any lead out of them. I would also say do not buy the bulge buster. I have never had a problem with literaly over 100 thousand pieces of brass sized. Over 30 thousand of those have been fired though the Glocks. Neither has failed to feed, fire or eject a single time.
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Old April 21, 2012, 09:50 AM   #15
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I can't speak to the glock issue, some glock shooters are pretty high strung and think there gun smoke don't stink. I started reloading with a Lee turret press, it came with one set of pistol dies (of my choice). I buy all my componits in bulk some the cost is spred out over time. THe problems I have had with my press are minor and it is normally a matter of adjustments.
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Old April 21, 2012, 11:02 AM   #16
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Glock reloader here for 17 years in various calibers, shot matches with G22s and carry a G27. I have shot reloads in Glocks with various jacketed/plated/lead/Moly coated lead bullets. And yes, my "smoke" stinks like everyone else.

Agabus, you have gotten good advise on this forum so far, but not sure about what you got from Yahoo group ...

Gen3 Glock chambers are comparable to most other factory barrels (actually, some other factory barrels are even more generous than Glocks but due to much greater number of Glocks having been sold, there's more "forum/youtube" posted incidents of problems like KaBoom) and require the same reloading safety principles used for reloading any other pistol cartridges - You should always conduct full powder work up from starting load towards max load while looking for pressure signs/issues.

Advice I can offer for reloading for Glocks, especially higher pressure 40S&W, is to NOT start with faster burning pistol powders at near max/max load data powder charges. When you are initially starting out, your reloading practices/methods may not be precise and you could be off by several tenth of grain off in your powder charge. With faster burning powders that has spikey pressure curve like Hodgdon Titegroup, extra .2-.3 grain charge could mean overpressure trouble. I would recommend you start off with moderately fast burning pistol powders like W231/HP-38 or slower to start off and not with Titegroup, especially for 40S&W. I have shot several hundred thousand rounds of reloads in Glocks using W231/HP-38 and mid-to-high range load data the past 17 years and I have not experienced pressure issues.

As to equipment, single stage press is a good start as you can load pistol or rifle cartridges. If you can spend more, Lee Classic Turret with cast iron base is an excellent press that can be used as a single stage press or a turret press. If you plan on reloading rifle cartridges, keep in mind that Lee Pro 1000 loads pistol cartridges and short rifle cartridges like .223/7.62x39 only. I use all three press types and would highly recommend the Classic Turret press.

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Old April 21, 2012, 11:33 AM   #17
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Quote:
Rockchucker. I started out on a RC 28 years ago, and now have an additional single stage Corbin press and two Dillon 550 progressives. Guess what, I never did outgrow the rockchucker.
If you never outgrew the RC why would you waste money on two Dillon 550's?

Quote:
Hmmm....OK, it looks like I might have more income from the garage sale. So, if I happen to have around 300-400$$...what do you all suggest??
I would go with the Lee classic turret. The kit at Kempf and the few extras will put you around $300. Loading 50 pistol rounds per hour on a single stage will get old fast. The classic turret will let you load 175 to 200 per hour.
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Old April 21, 2012, 08:20 PM   #18
Lost Sheep
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$300-400 budget?

Your post #11

If I had $350, shooting one cartridge (40 S&W) I would buy, in addition to a couple of manuals:

1 Lee Classic Cast (Single Stage) Breech-lock Press or Lee Classic Turret press.

2 Lee Dies (3-die set for the single stage and 4-die set for the Turret, but either set will pair up with either press just fine.)

3 A good balance beam scale (Lee Safety Scale is accurate but hard to read. Others are more expensive, though.)

4 Calipers capable of measuring down to 0.001"

5 Lee Safety Prime (can wait if you run short of cash). Clean fingers can do the job in a pinch.

6 Lee Auto-Disk Powder Measure (can wait if you run short of cash.) A decent substitute for the powder measure is a 9mm case with a handle made from a wire tie. File it down so it will scoop your desired powder charge - verified with your scale, of course.

7 Bullet puller (can wait if you run short of cash)

8 If you use a single stage, two loading blocks. If you have a drill and a scrap of 2x6 you can make them yourself otherwise $7 each

9 Brass tumbler (can wait if you run short of cash. I waited 30 years for mine, using a soft cloth to clean my brass of grit worked just fine.)

Kempf's Gun Shop (on line) sells a dandy kit for $210 that covers the Classic Turret Press, dies, primer feed device, Auto-Disk powder measure and six plastic ammo boxes. Add a good scale, calipers and manuals and you are loading in fine style.

If you plan on shooting 50 rounds a week, a single stage will do, especially if you have lots of time on your hands. However, if you plan on shooting 50 rounds a week, you will like reloading so much that you will find yourself shooting 100-150 rounds a week.

If you do shoot more than 150 rounds a week you will find yourself thinking real hard about the increased capacity of a turret. (Opinion: On turrets, there is no better turret press than the Lee. Fact: Lee is the only maker that offers a turret press with auto-indexing, which is a great convenience.)

The Lee Deluxe Turret is cheaper than the Classic Turret, but the Deluxe is not as strong, is made of aluminum, handles spent primers not as well. But it is less expensive and for smaller handgun cartridges is perfectly adequate. This is the one post I have ever made that comes closest to recommending the Deluxe over the Turret, but for your budget, might be a better fit for you. But I will stop short of actually crossing the line. The Classic Turret is still better and worth the extra bucks.

Single Stage. The Classic Cast is iron. The Challenger is Aluminum. Spent primer handling is better on the Classic. That alone is worth the money.

If you go onto the used market, you can get by at about 50% to 80% of the new price. Sometimes you find a real steal and get treasures for 15% to 25%, but that takes luck and a discerning eye. But it is rare to find a single stage press that is not worth having, especially at garage sales or any place other than gun shows. Gun shows and ebay tend to get the "overpricing gene" activated.

Used gear can be had;
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439810
Lost Sheep

Last edited by Lost Sheep; April 21, 2012 at 08:28 PM.
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Old April 21, 2012, 08:29 PM   #19
Lost Sheep
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Post #5 had several inoperable links - fixed now

Sorry about that. I fixed the inoperable links.

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Old April 22, 2012, 10:12 AM   #20
Edward429451
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Quote:
If you never outgrew the RC why would you waste money on two Dillon 550's?
One is set up for 45acp and the other is set up for 223rem. My two most used cartridges.

Have you hugged your Lee press today?
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Old April 22, 2012, 10:52 AM   #21
mje
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I agree with everything everyone has said ;-) I use a Lee Turret Press, but I don't prime on the press. I decap and size all my brass and then use a Lee Ergo hand priming tool, which gives me more consistent results. The primer feeder for the on-press priming tool is a PIA.

I reload mainly for revolvers, but if I shot autos I'd get a Proressive press- a Hornady or maybe a Dillon Square Deal. (For shotgun I use a MEC 600jr.)

I used a Lee scale for years, but this year I bought a Hornady electronic scale. What a huge difference that makes! Now I weigh at least 5 charges from my powder measure before I start reloading, and I regularly weigh charges at intervals during reloading sessions.

Last: Buy an inertial bullet puller. You'll need it. Every so often you'll discover you've loaded an empty case, or you've cracked an old case, or your scale has started throwing light charges, or a dozen other things, and you'll need a safe way to dispose of these unsafe loads.
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Old April 22, 2012, 07:49 PM   #22
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Quote:
One is set up for 45acp and the other is set up for 223rem. My two most used cartridges.
I understand that. Why would you need them if you didn't outgrow the RC?

Quote:
Have you hugged your Lee press today?
It hasn't had a hug for a few weeks.
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Old April 23, 2012, 08:36 AM   #23
Agabus
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Great News!!!..Someone read my posts elsewhere, and had a 2 year old LEE Classic Turret press that he wasn't using anymore. Had bought a more advanced press (i.e. more expensive), and decided to offer me his LEE. All I have to do is pay for the shipping. Also, he is shipping prepaid, then I send check to him. Great deal! Also, he said that he also had some extra turrets he would also send with this. So, how could I go wrong!!!...

Now all I have to do is buy the other necessary items that I need...

Thanks again for all of your expert opinions.

Last edited by Agabus; April 23, 2012 at 04:27 PM. Reason: New thoughts
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Old April 24, 2012, 08:49 PM   #24
Lost Sheep
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Great news, indeed. You have met a truly generous individual and gotten a great gift.

I'm happy for you.

Lost Sheep
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Old April 25, 2012, 02:02 PM   #25
Edward429451
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Quote:
I understand that. Why would you need them if you didn't outgrow the RC?
You're dieing to get me to say I outgrew it.

I didn't. I thought I did. I bought two extra toolhead conversions complete with measures to meet my growing demands sic. I immediately realized that I don't like loading 44 Mags progressive. I like to take greater care seating boolits than the 550 lets me do.

It didn't take me long to realize I didn't like loading 308s on it either. I did load good 308s on it but something was missing. I couldn't have as much hands on loading with the 550 that I like to put into my 308 rounds. So now I have two virtually unused 550 toolhead conversions gathering dust. Anybody need one?

The 550s are good for 45's and 223s. I'm not riding max, not demanding 1/2 groups at 200 yards (sic), and the extra ammo is nice. So I didn't outgrow the RC. In fact it may be more accurate to say that I grew into it.

All my rifle ammo cept 223 is loaded single stage. My big bore handguns get better ammo when loaded single stage. A single stage press is the cornerstone of a reloading room. At least for me. YMMV.
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