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View Poll Results: Have you experienced any reliability issues within the first 100 rounds?
YES 1 6.25%
NO 15 93.75%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 17, 2012, 02:40 PM   #1
TxFlyFish
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S&W Shield - first 100 rounds Initial Quality Survey

for those of you who jumped on the first batch of M&P Shields what issues (if any) have you noticed in the first 100 rounds? The two MPS that my friend and I tried were boringly reliable with a variety of ammo and I haven't come across any reported problems on the other forums. this is just somewhat strange for a new pistol especially for a subcompact (yes it's a scaled down M&P but it's still quite different than the double stack siblings). Do you think S&W did additional QA/test fire before MPS left the assembly lines?

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Old April 17, 2012, 02:45 PM   #2
TunnelRat
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Lol, dude these things are brand new to the market. 100 rounds isn't a lot through the gun to determine reliability. Wait a bit and I am sure someone will do an extensive range report. And yea I think S&W tested them .
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Old April 17, 2012, 02:50 PM   #3
TxFlyFish
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you'd be surprised how many subcompacts don't make it past 100rds without any hiccups. I've had both Nano and PPS jam multiple times within 100rds. Other platforms include the sig p238 and Kimber Solo, Kahr PM/CW9...and the recent 4th gen glocks, the list goes on...

I have some suspicion that SW did more QA to this first batch...it's not very often that guinea pigs are so lucky with new releases

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Old April 17, 2012, 02:54 PM   #4
TunnelRat
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Quote:
you'd be surprised how many subcompacts don't make it past 100rds without any hiccups.
One of many reasons why I choose not to carry subcompacts.

But getting back to the point, this thing literally just came out. Your sample size is going to be very small. You seem excited about the gun which is great, I just think a poll like this would be better suited after it's been on the market for a bit.
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Old April 17, 2012, 02:57 PM   #5
MonsterB
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Definately good to know you had a good 100 rounds. I don't care what anyone says that's positive news from a brand new model, with different amo. 100 rounds is no toture test but a lot of guns would definitely choke in those first 100 rounds. Still way to early to tell, but a good first report is, well, good news!
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Old April 17, 2012, 03:02 PM   #6
TxFlyFish
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agreed on the torture test aspect, I don't consider MPS anywhere ready for 50k torture test not in another 2-3 years (as is most new designs). Consider this as an initial quality survey, the kind that JD Powers does with cars
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Old April 17, 2012, 03:09 PM   #7
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Put 2,000 or 3,000 rounds through it before any pronouncements are made. I'd consider 500 rounds just breaking it in.
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Old April 17, 2012, 03:22 PM   #8
TxFlyFish
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that's what kimber wants everyone to believe...how many of us will keep shooting a faulty gun to 500rds before sending it in or tinkle with innards?

a gun that does not have any issues within 100rds will have less issues down the road compared to one that starts with issues. A good chunk of problems cannot be "smoothed out" with break in.

in hindsight I shoulda prob directed this question in SW forums

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Old April 17, 2012, 03:35 PM   #9
TunnelRat
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I think you need to distinguish between reliability and quality control then. When you test fire to 100 rounds all you're doing is assuring that the gun did not come faulty from the factory. This a good idea regardless, and I've had guns fail at this point, but really all that is doing is checking the quality control from the factory.

To me reliability means how well the gun is performing 1000 rounds, or 5000 rounds, after being bought. You seem to be thinking of if it has problems in the first 100 rounds it will have problems down the line. Now assuming the gun isn't fixed, I agree with you. Problems don't fix themselves, but they can appear out of nowhere. I had a S&W Government 1911 that was fine for the first 500 rounds. Right around the 550 round mark the stakes for the safety plunger broke and the safety couldn't be engaged, not too good on a SAO weapon.

To me reliability is the ability of the weapon to continue to function without function ending breakages after many rounds, even if it was functioning fine originally. Reliability is more of a test of the overall design, while quality control measures how well the manufacturer can make, or its suppliers can make, the accompanying parts to the design specs. Now obviously the two are related, no matter how good the design if QC is poor it doesn't matter, they are still separate in my mind.
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Old April 17, 2012, 03:43 PM   #10
TxFlyFish
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good idea thanks for the pointers reliability vs QC. I rephrased the title


I did some crawling on the SW forums there are still no reported issues to date. theres one guy who is around 1000rd mark. I'll try to ramp up the rd count on the two MPS my friend and I are shooting as well
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Old April 17, 2012, 03:47 PM   #11
TunnelRat
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This, I agree with.

And I would be surprised if it wasn't good. The talking heads seem to like it and S&W has made it a bit of a priority I think.
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Old April 17, 2012, 03:53 PM   #12
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I would still wait though. Dad's view was always wait until "year 2" on anything mechanical for the bugs to be worked through. Thats served me well.
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Old April 17, 2012, 04:16 PM   #13
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I dont think the op was meaning to make it sound like the gun was good to go with 100 rounds through it. This today is probably the hottest gun on the market, at least for right now, and to get your hands on one, shoot it with a variety of amo, and have it function 100%, is great. Maybe others will turn out to be not so good, or even horrible, or they could turn out to be very reliable in most cases, noone knows at this point.
Put it this way, taking Glock for instance. Reptably the maker of the most popular guns sold today, and have been having signifigant issues for quite a while now. And thats with thier models they have been making for years, if not decades. And they still havent come out with a single stack, small 9mm, which is more demand today than just about anything. If S&W can come out with a very nice, relatively inexpensive, and well performing alternative, Glock is going to have some real problems. If Glock doesnt wake up soon, and come out with something dramatic, the writing is on the wall for them. And Im saying this as someone who is, or was, a huge Glock fan. I really hope they get it together but I really dont see it happening any time soon, if ever.
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Old April 17, 2012, 05:11 PM   #14
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If Glock doesnt wake up soon, and come out with something dramatic, the writing is on the wall for them.
I think you're blowing it a tad out of proportion. Glock has been in business for a while and will continue to be so. Just because they don't have a single stack 9mm doesn't mean they're magically going to disappear. With the percentage of service weapons out there that are Glock, and true the M&P is growing as well, and the following they have they are set for at least a while. Now they have had issues as of late, but I can't tell you how many new people I see go to gun shops and at least want to look at a Glock, if for no other reason than they've heard about it. Do they make the hot item of today? No, but let's be realistic in that it's the hot item for gun nuts like us. I don't think sales of the Shield are going to make S&W number one. Let's all remember that for a while S&W didn't even have a good dog in the polymer fight, yet they survived over those years. These things go in cycles.
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Old April 17, 2012, 08:48 PM   #15
Oysterboy
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I had 1000+ through my KT PF9 without any issues except with the WWB value pack. 10% FTEs out of 100 (one and only box). As long I stay away from the WWB value pack it has been 100%, even with WWB 147 HPs.

115, 124, 124 +P and 147 were no problem.

I think the 9mm Shield is gonna be good.
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Old April 17, 2012, 09:36 PM   #16
Bart Noir
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And my K-T PF-9 barely made it to 100 rounds. It got worse and worse and after about 120 rounds, I cannot move the slide back and forth without using a little mallet.

I'm not kidding you. The slide doesn't. Slide, I mean.

So this one failed the 100 round test and is going back to K-T.

Bart Noir
Who is not inclined to be buying any of the other K-T guns after this. Good customer service might turn this around.
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Old April 17, 2012, 09:47 PM   #17
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Yea, I've read a lot of problems with PF9s, Guess I was lucky. I sold it to finance my Sigma 9mm.
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Old April 17, 2012, 09:53 PM   #18
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The truth is S&W along with others are seriously working at the market share... Truth is Glock lost its innovation so long ago no one knows if it will ever be found... An extra spring or a longer or shorter barrel isn’t innovation; it’s the same old crapola...

I think S&W is on to something here.. Its a fine looking gun with what seems to be a good start... Others will follow the trend and innovate and those that dont will slowly pay the price of for the lack of foresight and innovation..

Is it seriously so hard to make the Block with changeable grips or with a different grip angle or how about a tritium front sight straight out the box? Do these and i might actually buy one..

No, it’s not going to happen... hardcore fans will buy it no matter what... Until one day S&W and others make them go away.. The eventual edsel of a few generations.

I look forward to more reviews of this pistol..
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Old April 17, 2012, 09:58 PM   #19
TunnelRat
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Others will follow the trend and innovate and those that dont will slowly pay the price of for the lack of foresight and innovation
I guess I fail to see where the innovation is. S&W is far from the first company to make a single stack, or close to it, polymer 9mm pistol. If anything I guess you could call it an evolution. But I really don't see this as a game changer. It's a nice gun to be sure, but people seem to be acting like S&W just turned water into wine.
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Old April 17, 2012, 10:00 PM   #20
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QC vs Reliability vs Durability

TunnelRat, I understand the point you are making regarding the need for maybe 1000 rounds, instead of just 100 rounds, to make a judgment. And your point is well taken.

However, since you were noting the distinction between QC and reliability, I would suggest a further distinction between reliability and durability. Of course, we are getting into semantics here, but it seems to me the current thread is in fact trying to address basic reliability of function, which might mean the gun doesn't jam up due to design issues or initial QC issues. How the gun performs in the first 100 rounds would be informative, though surely not the final word.

The question of whether the pistol continues to be reliable over 1000 or 2000 or 5000 rounds, well that would be a question of durability...right?
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Old April 17, 2012, 10:05 PM   #21
TunnelRat
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Quote:
The question of whether the pistol continues to be reliable over 1000 or 2000 or 5000 rounds, well that would be a question of durability...right?
I would argue that it's both a question of reliability and durability. Durability really refers to the parts themselves, whether the frame or the roll pins in the slide. Again to me reliability refers to the overall design. I would say they're so closely related that in many ways they can mean the same thing in this case.

If you have no QC, reliability is not important. If the parts have no durability, reliability is not important. Think of the tree metaphor. To me reliability is a tree, with durability and quality control some of the branches.

I'm going to go paint watercolors now .
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Old April 17, 2012, 10:10 PM   #22
Aristides
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I agree, reliability and durability can often mean essentially the same thing.

In any case, I want my guns to be reliable from the first magazine, and continue to function reliably for 5,000 rounds. If so, we can surely agree that the gun is both reliable and durable.

Let's hope this S&W Shield fits that description!
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Old April 17, 2012, 10:21 PM   #23
James K
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All guns (and other products) have a design life, so maybe that gun won't do 10 thousand rounds, but it should be reliable for its design life. 100 rounds is not enough to determine reliability but as others note, many new pistols won't do 100 (or even 20) without some kind of failure.

But you better believe that S&W tested those guns for many thousands of rounds before putting them on the market. Not each gun, of course, no company could do that, but I'm pretty sure that prototypes and sample production guns were fired more rounds than anybody here could afford.

Jim
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Old April 17, 2012, 10:27 PM   #24
TunnelRat
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but I'm pretty sure that prototypes and sample production guns were fired more rounds than anybody here could afford.
I'll take that bet .

But then I'd be broke afterward .
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Old April 17, 2012, 11:02 PM   #25
TxFlyFish
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about the testing I'm pretty sure that there were thousands of rounds run thru many prototypes....what im speculating is here is not the prototypes but rather every single one of these MPS from the first batch got some extra attention from SW QC...I seriously don't remember the last time a new release launched this smoothly.

SW was successful at these key areas of new product release that has plagued so many other manufactures recently
1) inventory at announcement, ie no vaporware
2) involvement of third party accessory makers, with some available now and others ETA May
3) a product that actually works out of the box

Seriously guys when was the last time someone released a product that worked out of the box on release day? sure they will be problems reported as the rounds rack up and SW will do minor tweaks in the next two years but the lack of issues reported on the Internet is just shocking. Good for them if they continue down this path, maybe Hk won't be the only one (mostly) that release stuff that works.


Balls in your court Springfield! better make sure that XDS comes out right after delaying shipments last month!

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