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Old April 16, 2012, 05:02 PM   #1
Rob Pincus
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Feedback on new style of Firearms "training" show...

Hello everyone... I recently participated in a few episodes of a new show called "Stop the Threat" and one of them is available online.

I wanted to share the link and get some feedback from members here... not just on this episode or the ideas expressed within, but what are your thoughts on this style of show in general? The "panel of experts" discussing the re-enactments?

http://atsn.tv/index.php?option=com_...ries&Itemid=63

Thanks Much for your time!

-RJP
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Old April 16, 2012, 10:19 PM   #2
Lee Lapin
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Rob,

The style of the re-enactment reminds me to some degree of the scenarios put forward in the NC concealed carry course training video. I think it should be stressed that the re-enactment in this case represents a reasonable approximation of what happened in the actual incident, and if possible, followup discussion should include the legal disposition of the incident as well.

I like the panel approach, and especially appreciate having recognized trainers on the panel.

Thanks!
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Old April 16, 2012, 10:26 PM   #3
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Cool.... Thanks, Lee!

I think the problem is that many of the re-enactments (as I understand it) are approximations and/or even amalgamations of incidents where there is very little objective fact to go on.... so, it really is about showing *something* and then discussing exactly what we see good, bad and (sometimes) ugly...
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Old April 16, 2012, 10:46 PM   #4
motorhead0922
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Sorry Rob, the video won't play. I get an icon that says I need Adobe Flash 10 or higher. I have Shockwave Flash 11.
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Old April 16, 2012, 11:12 PM   #5
Rob Pincus
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I'm no IT guy... but, I usually do what the computer tells me. I'm sure it is a free download... ?
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Old April 16, 2012, 11:22 PM   #6
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It seems to have a problem with Firefox. It runs fine on Chrome and Internet Explorer for me.

Great show! I will follow it intently. In fact, it sparked a great discussion between my wife and I about the situations described.
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Old April 16, 2012, 11:23 PM   #7
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Awesome... I Think that's one of the best things about the TV shows I've worked on... just get people thinking!

(thanks for the IT help as well!)
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Old April 16, 2012, 11:51 PM   #8
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I'm running Firefox on a Mac, and it ran fine for me. I just did an update to Adobe Flash a couple of days ago.
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Old April 17, 2012, 01:38 AM   #9
MarkDozier
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I saw the pilot several months ago. I think the format is disjointed. The content is relevant, but we need to see the whole video before the discussion starts. and then they can bring the video up at correct points to aid in and display points of the discussion.
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Old April 17, 2012, 05:03 AM   #10
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I like the format. The host, though, needs to have more experience. He comes across, IMHO, as a typical MSM-type. Maybe someone like a Jim Scoutten or a Dick Metcalf would be better.
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Old April 17, 2012, 07:06 AM   #11
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Host + Format

I like the role the host plays. I bet he is more knowledgable than he lets on so that he can connect to folks newer to the topics at hand. He'll ask the questions most are thinking inside and leave the questions most need to be thinking about to panel.

I appreciate seeing the video in segments. It provides analysis on the fly which might potentially build some good habits instead of reacting to everything after the fact. We have enough of that in real life. Wouldn't it be great to be able to think: "wait, what should I be worried about at this point?" rather than "did I just get robbed?". The panel discussion is a pretty efficient way of getting inside several people's heads at once. Another alternative would have taken much longer - which would be a running commentary as the video plays for each panel member who has a pause button. Although that might be useful to identify exactly when / what cues a certain thought to a trainer / LEO. A lecture style of seeing the video first and then speaking about it all at once would shift the focus away from the scenario which the audience is supposed to be engaging in.

At first I thought this was going to be like "Crime Strike" - which is a great series of videos by the way. Very novel approach. It was up-beat even when speaking about serious issues and I believe that encourages thought.
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Old April 17, 2012, 10:41 AM   #12
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That episode was a lot of fun to film. One thing that surprised me about it was how difficult it is to be clear & concise when you are thinking on your feet -- we didn't get to see or discuss the scenario ahead of time, so it was very real, very fast and very fresh as we discussed it.

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Old April 17, 2012, 10:51 AM   #13
dyl
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Wow so that was pretty spontaneous - all of the panel's training kicked in to deal with the situation at hand (stressful filming)

I thought that even if the panel had been given some prompts or sneak peaks it would be very forgivable given the great teaching opportunity. Looks like it worked out very well even without it.
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Old April 18, 2012, 05:34 PM   #14
Lee Lapin
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One thing that surprised me about it was how difficult it is to be clear & concise when you are thinking on your feet

Then you did a really good job at bringing out useful points clearly and quickly - kudos to both of you!
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Old April 18, 2012, 05:52 PM   #15
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I thought it was spot on... Great stuff!
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Old April 18, 2012, 07:44 PM   #16
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My wife and I just watched the 4 that were posted. We liked the format a lot, especially that each scenario is someone going about a relatively normal life and sometimes doing things right and sometimes making minor errors.

Some of the panel need to learn how not to talk over everyone else (the trainer guy from Texas, especially). After a while, it just degenerated into everyone talking at once, which is a little hard to pick out each person's point.
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Old April 18, 2012, 09:36 PM   #17
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I agree with Lee, it would be nice to get feedback on the legal disposition of the case after the experts have mulled things over.

It's nice to know what the experts think, it's also nice to know how things played out in the courts.

The informal give and take atmosphere worked well. I thought the long introductions with the person being introduced having to stare at the camera all the way through were a bit awkward. Maybe it would be better to do more brief introductions with some captions to provide additional information.
Quote:
we didn't get to see or discuss the scenario ahead of time
I tend to agree with dyl that it wouldn't have hurt for the panel to have some preparation time.
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Old April 19, 2012, 07:06 AM   #18
Rob Pincus
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Funny you should mention the intro bit, John... I was under the impression that they were going to run some b-roll, shots of our books, etc. during that time.

It was awkward to just stare at the camera... in one of the episodes, I actually waved and said "Hi Mom!". We'll see if that makes the cut...


***

As for the prep time, I think would make the show less interesting. You'd end up with responses that were TOO Tailored to the scene shown. In theory, the people sitting at the table should be able to put out concept & principle based information that apply to the situation in general. Studying one scene too much, or worrying too much about the finest of details usually result in "gaming" the situation, which tends to reduce the usefulness of the information to the person at home who will NEVER be in that exact situation... but might be in one similar.
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Old April 19, 2012, 03:20 PM   #19
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Quote:
was under the impression that they were going to run some b-roll, shots of our books, etc. during that time.
That would have worked too. One common problem with video shows is that people don't use the video like they should and the show ends up being more like a videotaped radio show than like a TV show.

I can see your point about the risk of things getting too scripted with a lot of prep time. I didn't have a problem with the way the show played with no prep time, so I guess I can't argue against leaving things as they are.
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Old April 19, 2012, 05:36 PM   #20
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An interesting series. I look forward to watching them all.
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Old April 20, 2012, 07:39 AM   #21
Bartholomew Roberts
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Interesting series and I enjoyed the show; however, several times I noticed you guys using terminology and discussions that would work for the crowd here; but that might be unintelligible to someone without a background in this ("OODA loop" being one example.)

I like the discussion on use of lethal force that followed the incident. I also liked how you highlighted how the rules of different states play in.

I liked that you didn't fall into the trap that a lot of gun-oriented shows do of having a 30 minute show where 10-15 minutes of the content is the show logo/intro (show a 30 second logo before commercial break then again when it comes back from commercial break) and a recap of things they just showed you 5 minutes earlier (often using the same footage even). I understand it is tough to produce content; but I hope you continue to avoid that.
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Old April 20, 2012, 01:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally spoken (in the video) by Rob: Let the guy have the filet of fish sandwhich
Nice one Rob!

I definitely enjoyed the format. I actually like the disjointed format (or rather seeing some of the video, discussing, seeing more). It's easy to focus on one part of the video and lose a little bit of discussion on some of the other points if you see the whole thing first.
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Old April 21, 2012, 08:15 PM   #23
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I watch this show every chance I get

Directv is great for things that would have never shown up on cable. The show is a little slow for me bit Mrs. Vermonter really gets into it and discussions do spark.
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