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Old April 16, 2012, 02:26 PM   #1
rebs
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LSWC for 45 acp ?

Dop anyone of you guys shoot competition on an indoor range where lead semi wadcutters only are allowed ?
If you do what is the preferred weight of the LSWC you load ?
Like 185, 200 or 230 etc.?
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Old April 16, 2012, 03:42 PM   #2
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Rebs,

Are you talking about NRA 2700 matches or some type of combat match?

For 2700 shooting, the 185 grain LSWC has been a favorite of the top shooters for many years. Of course they don't have to make major calibre as in some of the combat matches or IPSC events. At the 25 yard and 50 yard ranges of this event, the 185 does everything needed with reduced recoil for the rapid fire stages.

My favorite all around LSC for the 45 ACP has always been the 200 grain LSWC. I have a great set of RCBS moulds that kick out good quality bullets fast and I've also had good results with commercially cast 200 grain LSWC bullets.

I generally use Olin 231 powder in them, but Bullseye also works well in my 1911 pistols. Any brand of standard primers seem to do well, although over the years I've probably used more CCI LP primers than any other brand.

That 200 grain LSWC when pushed to 900 fps is a great jackrabit or vermin load too and is quite effective and accurate at 50 yards when fired from a well fitted pistol. Works well in my S&W Model 17 revolver also.
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Last edited by Scharfschuetzer; April 16, 2012 at 03:48 PM.
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Old April 16, 2012, 03:47 PM   #3
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I always shoot the same weight and velocity as my carry ammo, but that's not really relevant since I'm not in competition. I like the recoil feel of 185gr fodder, although most 1911s come with front sights for 230gr.
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Old April 16, 2012, 04:46 PM   #4
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200 gr lswc Bevel base-3.8 gr Bullseye-WLP-Starline brass. Taper crimp to take the bell/flare out + a hair more if needed to chamber.

Last edited by 243winxb; April 18, 2012 at 07:56 AM. Reason: remove photos as one is posted below.
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Old April 16, 2012, 06:58 PM   #5
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243Win came up w/ that good idea worth a thousand words.....

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Old April 17, 2012, 09:10 AM   #6
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A 200 gr H&G 68 bullet with 4.0 grains bullseye is an extremely accurate load, and easy to shoot.

Kimber Custom Classic M1911

200 LSWC 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WLP
21-Jun-06 T = 97 °F

Ave Vel =748.2
Std Dev =10.86
ES = 41.52
High = 763.2
Low = 721.7
N = 22

Mild recoil, very accurate, excellent target load.
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Old April 17, 2012, 04:01 PM   #7
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If the gun will feed it, the 200 grain SWC at around 850 f/s is mighty hard to improve on, for just about everything.
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Old April 18, 2012, 05:49 AM   #8
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Thank you guys for the replies, I appreciate it.
Does anyone know of a good place to buy the H&G 68 bullets ?
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Old April 18, 2012, 06:15 AM   #9
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I do

Penn Bullets

Suggest the 'standard' alloy.
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Old April 18, 2012, 07:23 AM   #10
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Penn Bullets

Suggest the 'standard' alloy.
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why do you suggest the standard alloy ?
I was under the impression that the harder alloy would cause less leading, I could be wrong.
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Old April 18, 2012, 08:08 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebs
why do you suggest the standard alloy ?
I was under the impression that the harder alloy would cause less leading, I could be wrong.
Most .45 ACP loads run slowly enough that the hard alloy is unnecessary and is actually counterproductive. When the bullet hits the lede, transitioning from chamber to rifling, you want the bullet to be soft enough to obdurate thoroughly, filling the grooves. If a too-hard alloy is used, the bullet may not fill the grooves and gases can blow past the bullet, giving you gas cutting of the bullet base, blowing molten metal up the bore, which the bullet, in passing, irons into the grooves.

Bullet alloy must match pressure and speed. I normally use dead-soft bullets in the .45 ACP and have had great results with swaged lead bullets. The .45 ACP doesn't need a hard bullet, quite the contrary. I save my hard alloy for rifle loads that are going to approach 2000 fps. Lots of pressure there to fill the bore.
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Old April 18, 2012, 08:30 AM   #12
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Thank you for the information, I appreciate it. I'll buy standard hardness for my 45 acp
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Old April 18, 2012, 02:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Does anyone know of a good place to buy the H&G 68 bullets ?
(1) Google "LeadHead Bullets" and you will get < proshootpro.com >

(2) Click on "Click Here to view bullet selection" and you will get
https://secure25.securewebsession.co....com/order.htm

Under Plain-Base bulets you will find
** PM45-200HG **
which is the the H&G#68 you want

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Old April 18, 2012, 05:43 PM   #14
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I use the Lee 200 grain SWC mold to make mine. It is the only non tumble lube mold I own. I still tumble lube them though. (I am lazy, and they work so I am not messing with what works. Cuz I am lazy as stated.) I load it with about 4.2 grains of Bull's Eye. They shoot well in every gun they have been fired in. The load is more accurate than I can shoot out of a handgun.
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Old April 19, 2012, 02:49 PM   #15
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I went to the local gun shop today, they had cast bullets in 45 acp 200 gr swc.
It doesn't say on the box but they look exactly like the H&G 68.
I checked the weight of some of them and they were mostly all 199.9 to 201.0 grns with very few 204.1 grns mixed in.
I measured them with a caliper and all the ones I checked were 452 with a length of 655.
Do they sound good or about right for cast bullets ?
They were 48.58 including tax for 500.
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Old April 19, 2012, 05:21 PM   #16
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I just went down to measure my LeadHead HG68s and they are 0.648"-ish
My ProofMark 200g semi-wadcutters are visually a near exact duplicate, but a teensy bit (0.003") shorter overall w/shorter main body/longer truncated cone.

They shoot 'nearly' identically, however.

Whose/what make bullets did you pick up?
(and can we get a picture?)

Last edited by mehavey; April 19, 2012 at 05:46 PM.
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Old April 19, 2012, 05:57 PM   #17
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The ones I bought were made by Drycreek Bullet Company

http://www.drycreekbullets.com/

They are 15BKN hrdness and magna blue lube

Last edited by rebs; April 19, 2012 at 06:07 PM.
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Old April 19, 2012, 07:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
The ones I bought were made by Drycreek Bullet Company


Looks to be the "classic" shape.
(and look like nice people)
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Old April 19, 2012, 07:35 PM   #19
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Rebs,

Sounds like those bullets ought to shoot pretty well as long as you have a barrel that's within factory specs (.451")

Lots of good suggestions for powder charges, but all pistols are a bit different so expect to experiment a bit. Reliability as well as accuracy should be your goals as well as enough pressure to obturate the bullet.
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Old April 19, 2012, 08:04 PM   #20
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My 45 is a Colt Gold Cup series 70 national match, I hope the barrel is in spec. How can I tell ?

what is obturate ?

The bullets I bought look like the nose is not quite as thick as the H&G 68, they look more like the proofmark. Is there enough difference that I should return them and order the H&G 68 from the internet ?

Last edited by rebs; April 19, 2012 at 08:12 PM.
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Old April 19, 2012, 08:35 PM   #21
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Obturate means to plug or fill. The .452" diameter is what i size to for my Series 70 GC. You can tell by how good the barrel is by shooting it. Cast bullets will condition the barrel with the lube. No need to clean a lot, only if going to put in storage for a while. The measurement of the bullet from base to nose will change with different alloys. This is why i set my COL using the shoulder of the bullet, like in mehavey's excellent photo.
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Old April 19, 2012, 09:57 PM   #22
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Quote:
The bullets I bought look like the nose is not quite as thick as the H&G 68, they look more like the proofmark. Is there enough difference...
Heck, I'd shoot them as-is.
They appear to be right shape/good quality.

Try the classic 4.0gr Bullseye load as reference and go from there.
Don't get too concerned if the casings don't clear the slide on ejection at first.
That's why God invented the Wolff Spring company:
http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%...cID1/mID1/dID1

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Old April 20, 2012, 06:43 PM   #23
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I also use Bullseye and SWC's in my .45's..........but my loads are a bit hotter than most plinking loads.

I use 5.5 grains under a 200 grains SWC. Shoots well in both my 1911's, as well as my brothers.

4.5 grains of Titegroup with the 200 grains SWC also makes a good plinking load.
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Old April 20, 2012, 10:55 PM   #24
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For Precision bullets, (a brand name, with a weird, plastic type coating) Titegroup is one of two powders specifically recommended against.

I've read that hard lead bullets can be self-defeating, but I've often wondered at the compromise necessary.

A bullet that's too soft will get dinged in the chambering process in a 1911, and go down range with a big divot in one side of it.
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Old April 21, 2012, 05:14 AM   #25
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I received this email message from Drycreek Bullets

The 068 is the Ballisti Cast version of the H&G 68. Ballisti Cast is the company that bought H&G. They should shoot the same. Please look at their site, they can answer these questions. I'm only a caster............Lynn
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