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Old July 25, 2011, 05:23 PM   #1
TheMacMocek
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Repeal the Hughes Amendment

Ever since Willian J. Hughes snuck his dirty awful amendment in with the 1986 FOPA class 3/NFA been thrown into the gutter. This law goes against the ssecond amendment because it forbids an entire class of firearms. We must overturn/repeal this law and open the machinegun registry once again. Of course writing/calling your representatives is very important but we really need to support the only organization out there trying to do anything about it. As of now they are not yet officially an organization, only a page on facebook, but they are currently in the process of becoming o non-profit organization, and we must do whatever we can to help and support this organization to help them achieve their goal of repealing the Hughes Amendment. So join the "Repeal the Hughes Amendment" page on facebook today.
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Old July 25, 2011, 05:27 PM   #2
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Can you tell us what your exact plans are to do so? What legislation and/or litigation are you planning to pursue, and in what venues?

By all means, if you've got an argument or method that hasn't been considered by thousands of folks before, please let us know.
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Old July 25, 2011, 05:44 PM   #3
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How would submitting a Form 1 to create a New Machine Gun,such as a M4 (along with the tax of course) then sue based on the fact that the amendment was defeated in a vote, yet illegally made law? I am sure there are many other rulings that would be in favor of over turning the ban
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Old July 25, 2011, 06:05 PM   #4
TheMacMocek
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Why not just slip the repeal in as an amendment to some other law, the same way the Hughes amendment passed in the first place
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Old July 25, 2011, 06:50 PM   #5
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Why not just slip the repeal in as an amendment to some other law, the same way the Hughes amendment passed in the first place
First order of business, find a congressman. i don't think any congressman is willing to do that.
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Old July 25, 2011, 08:46 PM   #6
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If you all would vote me into office, I would make that my only goal. Since I dont want to be a politician anyway, I wouldnt mind not being voted in again!!

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Old July 25, 2011, 09:40 PM   #7
TheMacMocek
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That's actually the exact type of thing we need. Someone to get into office and sneak the repeal in and maybe change the import laws as well. They'll of probably be voted out of office because bloomberg and the Brady bunch will surely release ads trying to convince the public to do so, but we will have our freedoms restored by that time anyway.
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Old July 25, 2011, 10:05 PM   #8
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Sell it as a revenue-enhancing measure. Essentially a voluntary tax increase.

Should fly well in this economic client.
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Old July 26, 2011, 12:25 AM   #9
Frank Ettin
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What evidence is there that an attempt to repeal the Hughes amendment is in any way politically viable? Has anyone of any stature in Congress indicated any interest in spearheading, or even actively supporting, such a venture?

But personally, I have to say that while we still have egregious laws in Maryland, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Illinois and California that significantly impair an ordinary, honest person's ability to effectively defend himself and family, opening the machine gun registry is a lower priority for me.
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Old July 26, 2011, 12:54 AM   #10
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What evidence is there that an attempt to repeal the Hughes amendment is in any way politically viable?
Absolutely none at this point. Notice how carefully we avoided the "machine gun" question in the Heller orals.

Bringing machine guns into the equation right now would be disastrous. It would give the Brady Campaign rhetorical ammunition, and it would alienate a significant number of allies.

Facebook pages and blog posts don't get stuff done. That takes money, tact, and clout. The organizations who do have those qualities aren't touching the Hughes amendment for now, and for good reason.
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Old July 26, 2011, 01:01 AM   #11
Frank Ettin
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Originally Posted by Tom Servo
Absolutely none at this point. Notice how carefully we avoided the "machine gun" question in the Heller orals.

Bringing machine guns into the equation right now would be disastrous. It would give the Brady Campaign rhetorical ammunition, and it would alienate a significant number of allies.

Facebook pages and blog posts don't get stuff done. That takes money, tact, and clout. The organizations who do have those qualities aren't touching the Hughes amendment for now, and for good reason.
And that is exactly my view as well. Could be wrong, and if anyone has any solid evidence to the contrary, I'll listen. But it will need to be good, well supported and knowledgeable. And I still think it's got to be a low priority in any case. There are still many much more important issues that we need to be spending our time, effort and money on.
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Old July 26, 2011, 07:09 AM   #12
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Has anyone put together a piece of sample legislation that could be presented to a representative?
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Old July 26, 2011, 02:58 PM   #13
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Don't think so, but like I said they ARE just a facebook page but the owner is working on becoming a nonprofit organization. He says they also plan to lobby the NRA and GOA. And if it DOES become an organization that will be their number 1 goal
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Old July 26, 2011, 03:11 PM   #14
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He says they also plan to lobby the NRA and GOA.
Members of the NRA have been doing that since the amendment passed in 1986. There are valid reasons the nation's largest and most powerful pro-2A group hasn't pursued the issue.

I don't know this guy thinks he can do that they can't. And if he's going to be taking people's money, he really needs to have a novel and solid strategy.
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Old July 26, 2011, 07:34 PM   #15
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Personally, I'd like to see the 1934 NFA act repealed or (preferably) ruled unconstitutional. Then the Hughes Amendment becomes moot.
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Old July 27, 2011, 02:43 PM   #16
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The real world problems with bringing up the issue of legal private machinegun ownership are many. First, is the public perception of machineguns as things only govt agents, the military, and lawbreakers have. And with over 70 years of brainwashing by the entertainment media that's not going to change.

Second, bringing the issue into the public eye in today's "safety concious" social environment is horribly risky. Many folks are working hard to rid us of the scourge of SEMI automatic weapons, think how popular the idea of FULL Automatic would be.

It is extremely doubtful that we could win any improvement in the current laws. Note that even in the Heller decision, the court did not say we have any right to full autos, using language about "in common usage" which full autos are assuredly not. The benefits do not come close to justifying the risks.

As for a revenue raising measure? Consider that the one tax the govt has never bothered to raise is the NFA tax. It was $200 in 1934, and is still $200 today. Would it gain us to see the registry reopened (the absolute best you could reasonably hope for) if they decided to raise the tax to say...$10,000?

Raising the NFA tax to $10K for each transfer would certainly be a revenue raising measure for the govt. And with the registry reopened, the price of NFA weapons would go down (because the supply was no longer fixed), but with a huge increase in the NFA tax, we would see no price break for the buyers, rather an increase, effectively pricing them out of reach of everyone who isn't tremendously wealthy. And it would pass constitutional muster, in the sense that the law no longer "bans" a whole class of firearm. Making it hugely expensive isn't a legal "ban" even though it is a de facto practical one.

Yes, it would be nice to be able to return to the standards (and costs) of yesteryear, but it ain't gonna happen, even including everyone in the nation who ever wanted to own a machinegun, the numbers are just too small, and that "special interest group" will get absolutely no sympathy from the press, or the general public.

The most likely outcome of bringing up the issue is enhanced regulations and increased costs. Neither of which does any of us any good at all. Rather the opposite, in fact.
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Old July 27, 2011, 09:00 PM   #17
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Consider that the one tax the govt has never bothered to raise is the NFA tax. It was $200 in 1934, and is still $200 today. Would it gain us to see the registry reopened (the absolute best you could reasonably hope for) if they decided to raise the tax to say...$10,000?
Adjusted for inflation alone, the tax would be $3,369. $200 doesn't sound like much to many today, but 1934 was the worst year of the Great Depression, and that was a small fortune back then.

Yes, a tax on a civil right is unconstitutional. However, this isn't the time to go challenging it, especially when we've no idea how bad the blowback could be.
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Old July 28, 2011, 10:00 AM   #18
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Ain't gonna happen in real time. By the time it does, we will be carrying ray guns and debating whether you should carry a Glock phaser or 1911.

No new organization is going to come up with something except your money in their pocket.
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Old September 12, 2011, 11:14 PM   #19
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Finally found some time to write something up. Thoughts? Anyone know a legislator they could pass this to?

Quote:
A BILL

To amend the title 18, United States Code to provide for increased revenue by removing limits on taxation provided for in 18, United States Code Chapter 53.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. REMOVAL OF LIMITATIONS TO VOLUNTARY TAXATION DEFINED IN 18, USC 53

(a) IN GENERAL- Section 922, Title 18, United States Code is amended by striking subsection (o).
Better still, bury it deep in some other bill.
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Old September 13, 2011, 01:59 AM   #20
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The problem is that it will come up, sooner or later.

And when it does, at the very least, it will be fixed.

More realistically, it will focus the spotlight on NFA weapons law, which achieves the opposite effect of trying to disguise the changes in the first place.
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Old September 13, 2011, 07:32 AM   #21
nklineg
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Repeal the Hughes Amendment

Perhaps that could be attached to the National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Bill, in the House right now, H.R. 822.
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Old September 13, 2011, 09:02 AM   #22
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Seems to me that would be the quickest way to be sure that HR822 wouldn't pass.

I have no problem with such a measure, but I'm a pragmatic guy.
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Old September 13, 2011, 10:22 AM   #23
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Seems to me that would be the quickest way to be sure that HR822 wouldn't pass.
+1; if a "poison pill" provision ever existed, this would be it.

I agree with 44 AMP and Tom Servo. This issue is the third rail of American gun politics. It would be nearly impossible for a Hughes repeal to pass unnoticed. HR822 is under a microscope; the only conceivable avenue would be to bury it in a huge omnibus bill, and even if that were done, it would probably have to be sponsored by someone willing to sacrifice their electoral career to it.

Honestly, I think the best hope for a Hughes "repeal" is to somehow neuter it in the courts first, thereby forcing Congress to act. Frankly, I don't see it happening anytime in the near future.
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Old March 25, 2012, 10:16 PM   #24
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New Petition

My friends and I have created a new petition for repealing the amendment. I know I'm reviving an old thread, but I am trying to spread the word. I plan to leave the petition up until after the election to gather as many signatures as possible hoping the political winds shift our way this November. I know its a long shot. I'm asking for your signatures and to share it everywhere you can, book of faces, word of mouth, other forums, email, etc.

http://www.change.org/petitions/unit...-fopa-nfa-1986

Thanks
- Dave
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Old March 25, 2012, 10:23 PM   #25
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Well, I know I'm going to get slammed for this addition to the thread, but so be it.

In my opinion, second amendment provides, in line with the times in which it was written, to allow the individual to bear arms. I do not believe that any of the founding fathers thought for a moment that it should be okay to possess a fully automatic machine gun privately. I also believe the right to bear arms was enacted for personal protection and hunting purposes, as the lifestyle back then would demand.
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