The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old April 8, 2012, 08:33 AM   #1
Gary L. Griffiths
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2000
Location: AZ, IA, WA
Posts: 1,278
NRA to expand lobbying to other conservative causes

Saw a banner on CNN this morning, that the NRA is expanding their lobbying effort to embrace other conservative causes.

I, for one, question this decision. The left/Democrats are already characterizing the NRA as a branch of the Republican party. I'm not sure we won't reduce our effectiveness at lobbying for pro-2nd Amendment legislation by embracing other conservative causes and alienating some of the pro-gun Democrats that support us now.

Let's try to stick to the issue, and not devolve into an NRA-bashing thread!
__________________
Violence is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and valorous feeling which believes that nothing is worth violence is much worse. Those who have nothing for which they are willing to fight; nothing they care about more than their own personal safety; are miserable creatures who have no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of those better than themselves. Gary L. Griffiths, Chief Instructor, Advanced Force Tactics, Inc. (Paraphrasing John Stuart Mill)
Gary L. Griffiths is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 08:40 AM   #2
AirForceShooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2005
Location: Sarasota (sort of) Florida
Posts: 1,185
This could be a HUGE mistake.

Allocating resources away from gun issues.

AFS
__________________
'Qui tacet consentit': To remain silent is to consent.
AirForceShooter is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 08:46 AM   #3
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,001
Here's the article from CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/06/politi...lec/index.html

Not a smoking gun by any means, if you ask me, but still troubling.

I like the comment at the bottom, though:

"He said the NRA's work is cut out for it, because gun ownership is on the decline in America."

I'd love to see the basis for that comment, especially give this Gallup Poll:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/150353/se...hest-1993.aspx

"A clear societal change took place regarding gun ownership in the early 1990s, when the percentage of Americans saying there was a gun in their home or on their property dropped from the low to mid-50s into the low to mid-40s and remained at that level for the next 15 years. Whether this reflected a true decline in gun ownership or a cultural shift in Americans' willingness to say they had guns is unclear."

Note that those are only the people who ADMIT to owning a gun. It may well be inaccurate as all hell as a lot of people I know who own guns wouldn't admit it to some unknown third party.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 09:21 AM   #4
SDC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2001
Location: People's Republic of Kanada
Posts: 1,631
Definitely, a BIG mistake; just like doctors have no business knowing whether or not you own a firearm, the NRA has no business getting involved in anything that is not DIRECTLY involved in firearms freedoms.
__________________
Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.
SDC is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 09:27 AM   #5
Casimer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 23, 2007
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 1,913
When you get to basis of the CNN's claim, it rests on the fact that the NRA is a member of the American Legislative Exchange Council, which is a body made up of lobbyists and state legislators. ALEC is comprised of a variety of interest groups that share resources to promote legislation at the state level.

A lobbyist hired by the NRA also worked w/ members of ALEC to promote voter ID laws at the state level. It's not apparent that she did this as a representative of the NRA. Ergo CNN is claiming that the NRA has shifted its focus to support all legislation endorsed by any member of ALEC. Their proof is that left-wing opponents of the NRA believe that the organization has a super secret rightwing agenda.

CNN lies, especially when dealing w/ hot button social issues. There really doesn't seem to be any merit to the claims in this story.

Last edited by Casimer; April 8, 2012 at 10:04 AM.
Casimer is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 09:35 AM   #6
buck460XVR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2006
Posts: 2,071
Quote:
Saw a banner on CNN this morning, that the NRA is expanding their lobbying effort to embrace other conservative causes

I saw it too.

Quote:
This could be a HUGE mistake.
I agree. The NRA does not need to identify with a political party, it needs to continue to identify itself with guns and Second Amendment rights. There are many Liberal and Moderate gun owners that belong to and contribute to the NRA. More so than many want to believe. The majority of young people in this country consider themselves "Moderates". We do not need to alienate those folks, nor do folks like me want to tie up monies intended for defending our Second Amendment rights on non-firearm issues.
buck460XVR is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 09:41 AM   #7
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague County, Texas
Posts: 10,426
I am not sure how lobbying these other causes fits the NRAs purview or why they feel that resources should be taken away from the gun lobby to address other issues. I take it from this change of direction that the NRA has decided their business is more about lobbying than about firearms - nothing like remaining true to your cause.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher."
-- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 09:43 AM   #8
Scimmia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2011
Location: Eastern IA
Posts: 428
Wow, that has got to be one of the most biased news articles I've read from a major news network, and that's saying something. Even they admit, though, "it's not known whether Mica consulted with other NRA officials about the bills on voter ID and immigration."

Basically they're taking the fact that one lobbyist that works with the NRA worked on other issues and making a conspiracy out of it.
Scimmia is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 09:43 AM   #9
EdInk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2009
Posts: 3,967
It sounds like CNN is trying to do somekind of "guilt by association" between the NRA and ALEC to me. It's all a bunch of "with ALEC" or "ALEC and...." type of stuff. Also, they don't mention alot of specific things other than supporting a bill that requires a photo ID to vote and not just showing up with someone else's voter registration card. (Which isn't a bad thing.)
__________________
Sic Semper Tyrannis
EdInk is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 10:07 AM   #10
Casimer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 23, 2007
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 1,913
BTW CNN has gotten the name of the organization wrong, ALEC is for American Legislative Exchange Council not American Legislative Executive Council.

I'd made the same mistake in my post, then remembered the correct name.
Casimer is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 10:07 AM   #11
thallub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 2,090
I've been an NRA member for over 50 years. It bothers me that the NRA has gotten involved in politics outside of its pro-gun charter. i have contributed many thousands of dollars to the PVF and the ILA. Stopped contributing to the ILA when they began distorting the facts and dabbling in "the UN is going to take your guns" conspiracy stuff. That puff piece about the mythological "gunowners champion" has irked me for a long time.

Politically the only thing i care about is my Second Amendment rights; everything else is secondary. i could care less that the pro-gun political candidate is a fire breathing Protestant preacher in the mold of John Brown or a lesbian Wiccan.
thallub is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 10:11 AM   #12
LockedBreech
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 6, 2009
Location: Rocky Mountain West
Posts: 3,015
If the NRA ever goes full-steam conservative, my membership ends. That simple for me. I lean moderate-conservative, but I only want the NRA in gun rights. Huge mistake alienating tons of gun owners if they get political.
LockedBreech is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 10:27 AM   #13
Fishing_Cabin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 10, 2010
Posts: 715
I feel that the NRA should stick to trying to advance firearm rights, and to educate new shooters as well as the general population about the positive aspects firearms/shooting sports/hunting. Beyond that I feel it is outside of their role. They should be trying to bring any spectrum together to support firearm rights, and not hitch up to one side, which will also alienate another side or two. We should stick together more now, and in the future, or else we will fall divided.
Fishing_Cabin is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 11:22 AM   #14
Sparks1957
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 4, 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,470
This move by the NRA ensures that I will never join them again. I'll all for protecting second amendment rights, but to align themselves with the conservative right on other issues is a serious mistake.
Sparks1957 is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 12:12 PM   #15
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 10,327
The presence of Josh Horwitz is telling. He runs the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence (CSGV), an organization that collects $125,000 a year from the Joyce Foundation. Edward Welles, one of the founders of the Violence Policy Center ("let's confuse the public on the difference between machine guns and semiautomatic rifles!"), helped start the CSGV as well.

The last time I heard from them was back in October, when they ran ads claiming that HR 822 would allow people convicted of domestic violence to carry guns anywhere. Horwitz is not above hyperbole and outright lying. I'd question the merits of any statement he makes.

Many NRA lobbyists are hired guns, and they get hired because they've got a resume that includes a record of success in other areas of politics. When they're on the NRA's dime, they do the NRA's business. When they're not, they might be doing other things.

The article is an attempt to cloud that distinction, and I wouldn't give it much credence. I've heard absolutely nothing indicating that a) gun ownership is on the wane, or b) that the NRA is branching out into other areas of politics.

Believe it or not, there are many influential people within the NRA who wouldn't stand for them becoming a generic conservative, Tea Party, women should wear longer skirts in public kind of organization.
__________________
In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer.
--Albert Camus
Tom Servo is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 12:51 PM   #16
twins
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 1, 2010
Posts: 393
I'm not an NRA member and find it amusing that this is something new about the NRA. I just assumed this was always NRA's MO. Are you telling me NRA members don't know what their organization is all about?

A person not knowing anything about the NRA can't find its purpose by visiting its website. You hear info from current members and gun forums but what is the purpose of the NRA in the 21st century?
twins is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 01:07 PM   #17
Silver Bullet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 6, 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 992
Quote:
If the NRA ever goes full-steam conservative, my membership ends. That simple for me. I lean moderate-conservative, but I only want the NRA in gun rights. Huge mistake alienating tons of gun owners if they get political.
I agree, but I don't believe anything from CNN. I'll want verification from a reputable source.
__________________
I am not a real bullet, nor do I play one on television.

American socialism: Democrats trying to get Republicans to provide for them.
Silver Bullet is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 01:08 PM   #18
Silver Bullet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 6, 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 992
Quote:
I just assumed this was always NRA's MO. Are you telling me NRA members don't know what their organization is all about?
More likely, it's you who doesn't know what the organization is all about.
__________________
I am not a real bullet, nor do I play one on television.

American socialism: Democrats trying to get Republicans to provide for them.
Silver Bullet is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 01:29 PM   #19
Merad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 5, 2011
Posts: 336
I don't support the NRA, but I find the whole thing funny. I remember a good bit of wailing and gnashing of teeth in 2010 from republicans because the NRA had endorsed some pro-gun D's over their R opponents.
Merad is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 02:13 PM   #20
alloy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 11, 2008
Posts: 1,931
If they wanted to do work in some other area like Voter ID Law, I guess I'd have to roll with it, but if they go into some other issues, any future communications will go straight to spambox.
Sounds like a fast track to losing whatever % of support they probobly get from millions of democrats.
__________________
Quote:
The uncomfortable question common to all who have had revolutionary changes imposed on them: are we now to accept what was done to us just because it was done?
Angelo Codevilla
alloy is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 02:26 PM   #21
TXAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: TEXAS!
Posts: 1,389
+1 for really bad decision

And the Anti's / Left Wingers have their agendas and poster children handed to them on a silver plate...
__________________
!أنا لست إرهابي
TXAZ is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 03:18 PM   #22
Webleymkv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,890
Bear in mind that almost no media reporting is completely unbiased. CNN has never been a particular friend to the NRA or gun owners in general, so I'm inherently sceptical of any claims they make on the subject.

As to the content of the article, it's really nothing more than a guilt-by-association piece. Tara Mica is the NRA lobbyist who also worked on voter ID and immigration laws, but there is no evidence that she worked on those laws as a representative, or with any involvement at all from, the NRA.

Likewise, the article points to the NRA's opposition to the McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Law. While this law, on the surface, was not about 2A, it did affect lobbying organizations which the NRA is. I don't think it's wrong, or even particularly unusual, for an organization to oppose a law which limits its own lobbying ability regardless of what that organizations main focus is.

Given the NRA's history of support for left-leaning politicians who still have good records on 2A such as Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV) and former Rep. Barron Hill (D-IN), I don't really buy that they're part of some vast right-wing conspiracy.
__________________
Smith, and Wesson, and Me. -H. Callahan
Well waddaya know, one buwwet weft! -E. Fudd
All bad precedents begin as justifiable measures. -J. Caesar
Webleymkv is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 03:31 PM   #23
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 10,327
Let's keep straight politics out of this, folks. As per the rules, we don't do that here.

I do find it amusing that folks were really angry when the NRA didn't do more to defeat the DISCLOSE act, despite it being only tangentially about the 2nd Amendment.
__________________
In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer.
--Albert Camus
Tom Servo is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 03:47 PM   #24
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
I am more appalled at the forum members who are reacting viscerally to a headline, obviously without having read anything past that.

Sparks1957, Fishing_Cabin, and a couple others: reacting in this maner isn't normal for you, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. But the meat of the article was about a lobbyist who has worked for the NRA, who has also done work for other organizations. There's no definitive tie between that lobbyist's work on non-firearms legislation and the NRA. It seems to be a CNN hatchet piece on the NRA, which is hardly surprising.

twins, you recently said you don't care about gun rights, and that if guns were restricted you'd just "find another hobby." A day or two later, you are NRA-bashing....
MLeake is offline  
Old April 8, 2012, 04:10 PM   #25
johnbt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 1999
Location: Richmond, Virginia USA
Posts: 6,004
http://articles.cnn.com/2012-04-06/p..._s=PM:POLITICS

Much ado about nothing.

The left attacking during an election year. Imagine that.
johnbt is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12965 seconds with 7 queries