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Old May 2, 2012, 09:31 AM   #1
mete
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Proper response

This incident was shameful in the lack of reporting . Whites in a car were attacked by a large group of blacks . The 'reporting' was not a 'news' item but opinion piece two weeks later !! This in Norfolk Va in the Virginian-Pilot.

The point I'd like to make is that under such attack normal rules don't apply. They were stopped at a red light and were attacked by the blacks .
The best thing to do under such an attack is to ignore the red light !! Get out of the area as fast as you can !
Second a vehicle of a few thousand pounds makes a good weapon , use it !
The decisions must be made immediately .The rule is survival not obey traffic laws !!

http://hamptonroads.com.nyud.net/201...and-brambleton
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Old May 2, 2012, 09:48 AM   #2
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Seems news reporting is extremely biased these days against whites, conservatives, and Christians. Just an observation.
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Old May 2, 2012, 10:05 AM   #3
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You should read what they say about us liberals.
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Old May 2, 2012, 10:24 AM   #4
Brian Pfleuger
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Reminder to keep this thread squarely on the topic of the tactics used to escape such a situation or on training to prepare for such tactics.

It will not go down the road of race, politics or religion.
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Old May 2, 2012, 10:29 AM   #5
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If this were couched in terns of victim / defender, assailants, attackers, this thread would stand a better chance of being a discussion on tactics and not getting locked.

But since it's chock full of racial descriptions of parties involved, it's more likely to devolve into politics.

Yes a car makes a good weapon against assailants. Yes, it's dumb to obey a red light and not use your car either as a means of escape or as a weapon.

The last police officer of my local PD to be killed was killed by a car theif who used his stolen car as a weapon to kill the officer who was trying to apprehend him.
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Old May 2, 2012, 10:41 AM   #6
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underreporting of this stuff, no. Over-reporting the other way round, yes. That’s not really relevant though. Mobs act like mobs no matter what color they are.

"Forster got out to confront the rock-thrower, and that's when the beating began."
Not very bright.
Call the cops immediately. Stay in the car (preferably armed) and be ready to roll over anyone in the way. They’ve already done damage to the car, presumably there’s evidence of where the attack began, and you’re 2 blocks from your work. A human speed bump or two while trying to escape is reasonable,
with the right lawyer and if they’re attacking ..
With someone else in the car, their safety takes precedence. Run the light, duh … maintain safe distance until cops come.

Expecting the cops to be able to do something about it is naïve. The rock thrower will probably disappear.
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Old May 2, 2012, 10:44 AM   #7
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So let me get this right. 1 guy and 1 girl in a car have a rock thrown at their vehicle by a group of people numbering around 30 and the guy gets out?? I would agree that driving away would have been in their best interest. As much as I would have been insanely POed, the potential damage to my car as opposed to my body or my passenger, would have outweighed that.
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Old May 2, 2012, 10:52 AM   #8
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I'll stay away from the reporting aspect.

But based on the information provided in the OP.

Floor it, Dee-Dee-Mao
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Old May 2, 2012, 03:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
She called 911. A recording told her all lines were busy. She called again. Busy
So much for ABC's advice to lock the door and call 911 .


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Old May 2, 2012, 04:35 PM   #10
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From a tactics and training standpoint, there was one prudent thing to do--leave, timely.

The victim did something else.
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Old May 2, 2012, 06:58 PM   #11
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My brother and a girl he knew were driving around detroit at about 3am. stoped at a light and a guy started walking towords the car. My brother had to tell her to just go through the light more than once before she did. If it wasn't for him, who knows what might have happened just because it was ingrained in her head to always stop at a light. Sometimes breaking minor laws is essential to your own well being. Situational awareness is important
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Old May 2, 2012, 07:01 PM   #12
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driving around detroit at about 3am
^ Bad tactics
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Old May 2, 2012, 09:17 PM   #13
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30 vs 2

That is scary stupid. As for the red light thing no color in the world can make me stop if my life is in danger.
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Old May 2, 2012, 09:20 PM   #14
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NORFOLK, Va. (WAVY) - The following is from a memo sent by Editor Denis Finley to Virginian-Pilot news staff Wednesday regarding the recent alleged attack on Pilot reporters Church Street and Brambleton Avenue.

Staff,

Here is what happened with XXXX and XXXXXX. They were victims of what police described as a simple assault and, initially, they did not want to be named in a story. If these were the circumstances with any other people in the community, we would not have done a story.

The truth is, we have no idea what motivated the attack. Was it a gang or a gathering? Did it just happen or was something planned? Was it racially motivated or random? We just don't know.

The Twitter comment about Trayvon Martin could have come from anywhere from anybody. Right now, it means nothing other than racial animosity continues to exist in our culture.

Many, including news organizations around the country, are assuming and making judgments based on information they do not have. That's a shame, it makes us look bad.

We did not cover up anything. We bend over backwards to treat ourselves the same way we would treat any other member of the community. In fact, we go overboard at times to make sure there is no perception that we have treated ourselves favorably because of our position.

Did we go too far here in holding to this standard? I don't know, I will always ask myself that question. But we made our decision based on the facts we had. That's all we can do. As journalists, we report facts, not assumptions.

We have done our due diligence with the story. We have checked the police report. I have read it. On its face, it would not merit a story. We have checked that neighborhood to see if there is an inordinate amount of crime there. There is not.

We will continue to monitor the investigation, just as we would with any story that has lingering questions. If the crime is reclassified, we will make a decision about further coverage then.

Thanks, Denis

http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_n...dresses-attack



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Old May 2, 2012, 10:04 PM   #15
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One of the people in this thread made mention that dialing 911 only got them a recording.It happens all the time just about every where.The 911 system works according to the local IQ average of the area.People call 911 all the time to ask for directions,weather reports,what time does the parade start,and the ever famous one,"Is there school today."It is not a perfect world out there.
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Old May 2, 2012, 10:24 PM   #16
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honestly I (personal thought not a proven fact) would think that the 911 operator if the person calling said they were fearing their life would tell the driver to drive away, I would call 911 just to cover my ass if I ran someone over (either injuring or killing) and they decided to turn around and sue and have a totally different story the person driving would be in some serious trouble. Call 911 so that its on record that you fled because of fear of your life and if there is a mob and their throwing stuff there might be a chance it will be able to be heard on tape. But a person would obviously have to keep collect in order to make these decisions something for most unless trained wouldn't be able to do.

Back to the original point before my rant yes the best tactical perspective would be to flee.
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Old May 2, 2012, 11:29 PM   #17
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pbearperry View Post
One of the people in this thread made mention that dialing 911 only got them a recording.It happens all the time just about every where.The 911 system works according to the local IQ average of the area.People call 911 all the time to ask for directions,weather reports,what time does the parade start,and the ever famous one,"Is there school today."It is not a perfect world out there.
I've called the police non-emergency number 4 times in my life. Obviously, for events that required attention but were not emergencies. I was told "Call 911" all 4 times. It's not always the regular guys fault that 911 is clogged with nonsense calls.
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Old May 3, 2012, 01:13 AM   #18
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to the OP....and I guess you already mentioned....anyone who hesitates about traffic laws unless it is life threatening, has an extremely higher chance of ending on the short end of the stick if they find themselves in a need for self defense and/or survival situation.
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Old May 3, 2012, 01:29 AM   #19
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Odds were 30 to 2 ? What if you pull out your Glock With 17 rds and had a spare mag full also. Does that help even up the odds? It sure would help, Just saying.
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Old May 3, 2012, 05:24 AM   #20
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Quote:
Odds were 30 to 2 ? What if you pull out your Glock With 17 rds and had a spare mag full also. Does that help even up the odds? It sure would help, Just saying.
What exactly are you advocating by this statement? At what point would you have brandished your firearm and shot indiscriminately into the crowd to even your odds? Wouldn't just driving away be easier? Just sayin
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Old May 3, 2012, 08:58 AM   #21
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I have seen an angry mob boil out of a bar for a street fight on the car in front of me. Pounding some poor fellow into that car.

It was a one way street. I did U turn (illegal) and zapped to the first side street.
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Old May 3, 2012, 11:23 AM   #22
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Farmer Boy

First I will say that I would not ever advocate shooting into an uncoming mob. The odds of being leagally justified in a self defense shooting are tough enough. You would have to have a legitmant fear that every one of those 30 people posed an immeadiate threat to your life. I would call any such action reckless, foolish, and irrisposnible.

Second Let's talk for a moment about one man with 17 rounds in his 9mm pistol. If you are ever in a situation where you have to incapacitate 30 people in order to insure your safety that would mean that you would only have room for 4 misses assuming only 1 reload. Only shots that incipacitated the threat would count. The only way I would ever conisder firing on 30 people is if they were firing back at me meaning that you are going to need a heck of a lot of cover.

I guess my simplest point is that escape is the only option in this situation for any reasonable man no matter what he is carrying.

Mobs do not immeaditly disperse when police are in full riot gear and there are as many officers as rioters. One citizen with a firearm has only one chance which is to runn until you hit the county line and then trot until you are in the next zip code.

Farmerboy I hear you on the evening the odds thing I really do. I just can't imagine a situation in which I would consider that my best and only option.

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Old May 3, 2012, 11:56 AM   #23
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Social rules vs. Training

At first I thought this was an issue of wanting to obey polite social rules - therefore not wanting to run through the red light. (see article on cornered cat website)

However since the man driving also exited the vehicle to confront someone/something - I think he was less focused on being polite so it was simply a training issue.

I doubt he'd thought about these kinds of things before so he didn't have a default course of action.

In retrospect what can anyone gain by exiting a vehicle and confronting even 1 person outside?

At most a description to tell the police I would think. There isn't much hope that the rock thrower would turn over his ID to hold himself accountable to be arrested by the police later. Or that he would outright apologize and hand over a few hundred for the repairs. And using force / threats to obtain that information is probably illegal. Not much you can do except save your hide from immediate danger - I guess in life sometimes material goods are simply lost.
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Old May 3, 2012, 12:18 PM   #24
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I was in Miami, FL when the 1980 Liberty City Riots broke out. Without no warning. In broad daylight an angry, savage mob came running toward my Pick-Up, throwing all sorts of things.
Out-numbered...1000/1
With only 6 shots in my Model 10 revolver....
I just punched the peddle to the metel....headed right out of that city. Never went back.
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Old May 3, 2012, 12:27 PM   #25
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Another case in which using a gun is not the best option. Insurance companies fix broken windows painlessly. A broken head is a different matter.
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