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Old March 31, 2012, 12:21 AM   #1
FrosSsT
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Dicks Sporting Goods Ammo

State: NJ
Note: Dicks does not have any policy regarding ammo besides putting it in a plastic locked box to take up to the cash register - they go by state laws

Im wondering if any of you had any problems with your local Dicks Sporting Goods. I want to share my story with you guys about today-
I wandered over to Dicks today looking to grab some 223 for the range tomorrow. I was told by the manager that I had to show a firearms ID card which I did not have on me at the moment. He explained to me that 223 could be fit into a pistol, making an ID required. I told him I believed he was wrong, because the 223 is the "sporters" version of 5.56x45, which was made as a result of the newly developed M16 in 1964, making it "long gun ammo". He told the guy at the counter not to sell it to me and walked away. I went online and searched the NJ law for handgun ammo, and this is what it read
"Handgun ammunition means any ammunition specifically designed to be used only in a handgun" And only "handgun ammunition" needs an ID.
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Old March 31, 2012, 01:01 AM   #2
BarryLee
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Personally I would take my business elsewhere and write a letter to their corporate office telling them why. Life is too short to worry about jerks or companies that don’t want our money.
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Old March 31, 2012, 01:01 AM   #3
FrankenMauser
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Unless there is a list, specifically defining what each cartridge is that they consider "handgun ammunition"; then it's ambiguous and open to interpretation.

My solution: Get the 'flock' out of NJ.

A more universal solution: Try to find a retailer that will sell it as "long gun" ammo.
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Old March 31, 2012, 05:13 AM   #4
lmccrock
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Pretty much anything can be fired from a T/C Contended handgun. And 223 can be fired from an AR pistol. "Specifically designed for", no, but retailers are put in a tough spot when states want to shut them down.
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Old March 31, 2012, 05:16 AM   #5
shaunpain
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Guy had a stick up his hoo hah. I say do what you feel in this scenario. I am of the persuasion that it does little to make a complaint, unless it's especially egregious, so I would never say anything. I would also never forget that. Probably wouldn't go back.
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Old March 31, 2012, 06:41 AM   #6
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It's the law more so than the manager at Dick's. Personally, I feel they are high priced anyway so I'd find another place to buy my ammo.
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Old March 31, 2012, 08:30 AM   #7
vito
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Dick's seems to have the highest prices around. I don't even bother looking at ammo there. We have an MC Sports here, and they seem to have pretty reasonable prices (certainly better than Gander Mountain) and a good ammo selection for handguns.
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Old March 31, 2012, 08:47 AM   #8
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreyzhorse
It's the law more so than the manager at Dick's. Personally, I feel they are high priced anyway so I'd find another place to buy my ammo.
How is it the law? The manager was wrong, and the law says what the law says -- which is that ID is required for ammo that fits handguns only.
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Old March 31, 2012, 11:04 AM   #9
SIGSHR
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Either he "thinks" he knows the regulations or he's repeating something he "thinks" he's heard or was told by someone who "thought " he knew the regulations. It's like the old standby of peoplesaying something is "forbidden" by an insurance policy they've never read.
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Old March 31, 2012, 01:00 PM   #10
FrankenMauser
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Quote:
-- which is that ID is required for ammo that fits handguns only.
And, who is to decide what ammunition fits that description?

You?
Me?
The manager?
The state?


It seems, to me, that the manager believed he had to protect his butt, and make the call on his own. Since he's the one selling it, I think he has that right (unless some one can produce a list of specific "handgun" cartridges, as defined by NJ law - in reference to the FOID requirement).

Common sense about what a "handgun" cartridge is, doesn't apply here, since we're dealing with not just a government regulation, but a New Jersey government regulation. You have to take the law as it's written.
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Old March 31, 2012, 03:30 PM   #11
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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Quote:
Dicks Sporting Goods Ammo:I was told by the manager that I had to show a firearms ID card which I did not have on me at the moment. "Rules are the rules!!"--Manager: He probably didn't have any choice in the matter.(sounds like corporate policy guidelines for your State.)
Happy to live someplace other than NJ for my ammo buying ability. That's for sure!!-- "ouch!!"--My suggestion. Spend your money someplace else. >"That appreciates having you as their customer."< SSMcG
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Old March 31, 2012, 04:43 PM   #12
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Yup. That manager has somehow learned that there are pistol versions of the AR-15, so now all .223 and .556 are techically pistol ammo in his mind.

As is .410 shotgun ammo, .300 AAC, 6.8spc, 7.62, 30-30, .308, and several dozen more that are clearly RIFLE ammunition designed to be used in a rifle that at some point, a company marketed and sold in a pistol version.

I know I've seen a .50 BMG pistol before too.

If you can't simply look at a .223 round and immediately tell it's "specifically designed to be used in a rifle", then you don't belong managing a store that sells guns.

You DO need to write a letter to Dicks, tell them about your experience. Don't go overboard with your explanation... just tell them what happened, quote the verbiage in the state law, and tell them that if their managers in that state are going to consider .223 ammo "pistol" ammo, then they just lost about 99% of their .223 sales, and the sale of everything else those people went into the store to buy that day.

You could also link them a picture of a Taurus Judge and ask if they want to discontinue selling .410 without a permit since that ammo will also fit in a handgun. I mention showing them this to highlight the nature of the managers misunderstanding of the law.
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Old March 31, 2012, 05:35 PM   #13
FrosSsT
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I called customer service and asked to speak to a supervisor. He told me there were no policies in effect that prohibited rifle ammo from being sold without an FID. He told me that all the store has to do is abide by the state laws.

"As used in this act "handgun ammunition" means ammunition specifically designed to be used only in a handgun"
- C.2C:58-3.3

"The .233/5.56x45 was developed to fit the action length of the new M16 service rifle"
- Wikipedia's .223 Remington History
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Old March 31, 2012, 05:55 PM   #14
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If NJ state law is as you quoted it with no amendments then you(and Aquila Blanca) are correct. Unless an ammo was specifically designed as a handgun ammo, you should not need a FID to purchase it. Unless the store has their own separate policy, it's not up to the store employee's to re-interpret the law.

Maybe a call to corporate is in order explaining to them the confusion their store manager seems to have on the issue that is costing their company $.
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Old March 31, 2012, 07:26 PM   #15
FrosSsT
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This is the best explanation of why I believe .223 ammo does not require a NJ Firearms ID Card:

.223 Remington is NOT recognized as handgun ammunition under state law. State law (And that is C.C2:58-3.3) says "handgun ammunition" means ammunition specifically designed to be used only in a handgun. Even though .223 Remington may used in some pistols, it does not make it "handgun ammunition" because it was not as the law quotes "specifically designed to be only used in a handgun"; the .223 Remington is the "sport" version of the 5.56x45, which was designed in 1964 to fit the action length of the M16 Military Rifle.
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Old March 31, 2012, 08:02 PM   #16
bbqbob51
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When I buy ammo at Dicks, the salesperson gets it from the shelf behind the counter and hands it to me. I then can wander all over the store and check out whenever I want. Hell, I could even just lay it down in the footwear department and just leave the store.
If I am buying shotgun shells they are on the shelf where the customers can pick out what they want without the assistance of a clerk. No problems at Dicks at all!
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Old March 31, 2012, 08:03 PM   #17
Don P
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I think the place of residence states it all New Jersey.

Makes me want to move back there
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Old March 31, 2012, 08:39 PM   #18
jhenry
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It is a NJ thing and not a Dick's thing. We have no Dick's Sporting Goods anywhere near here, but I do have a cousin who manages one elsewhere (PA to be exact). My experiences with them at that location have been universally positive.
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Old March 31, 2012, 09:01 PM   #19
shortwave
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It may be a law in NJ(and a screwed up one I might add) but again as the law is written, it is a Dicks manager thing with demanding the FID for the 223 ammo. He needs to be educated as to what the law means as it's written.
Wonder if he(the manager) requires a FID for the purchase of ammo in .270,.243, 22-250 or for that matter, a box of .410 shotgun shells.

Gotta put handgun ammo in a plastic lock box to carry it up to the checkout counter ??? Now that's funny,don't care who ya are...never heard of such a retarded law.

Last edited by shortwave; March 31, 2012 at 09:07 PM.
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Old March 31, 2012, 09:32 PM   #20
FrosSsT
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.410 Now requires a firearms ID at dicks because of the taurus judge.
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Old March 31, 2012, 10:15 PM   #21
shortwave
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Quote:
.410 Now requires a firearms ID at dicks because of the taurus judge.
Today 10:01 PM
...but as with the .223, the .410 was not 'designed' as a handgun round either. How does that comply with your state law? Or is that the law of the same manager at Dick's or Dick's law?
Too, there were handguns long before the 'Judge' capable of firing the .410.

Last edited by shortwave; March 31, 2012 at 10:28 PM.
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Old March 31, 2012, 10:21 PM   #22
gunsmokeTPF
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A friend of mine last year had ammo problems with Dicks on Long Island as well. I'd never go there and their name describes them perfectly.
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Old March 31, 2012, 11:21 PM   #23
FrosSsT
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shortwave theyre using the same logic with the .223 and .410
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Old April 1, 2012, 07:49 AM   #24
Uncle Buck
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My experience with Dicks Sporting is that they are overpriced and prefer to deal with the "Upper Crust" and "moneyed" types.

I wrote to the corporate offices and explained the problems I had and told them I would not be returning to their store. I received a reply and they sent a coupon for 25% off. (I gave the coupon to my sister, as she thinks if she pays more for something it must be better.)

A simple letter to them stating that you purchased the ammo at store XYZ and paid only $$.00 for it would be sufficient, adding in what you thought of the manager.
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Old April 1, 2012, 04:31 PM   #25
shortwave
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Quote:
shortwave theyre using the same logic with the .223 and .410
I understand that but who is ' theyre?

All Dick's stores in NJ ?
This same manager at this particular Dick's store?
Or the state?
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