The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 31, 2012, 04:44 PM   #1
pjp74
Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2011
Location: Anna, TX
Posts: 75
Holster Positions

Okay, I have seen more and more people carrying at the 2-oclock position instead of the customary 4-5-oclock position. I'm a lefty so it would the 10-oclock position instead of the 8-oclock position. Are there any advantages/disadvantages to moving your holster forwards, or is it simply preference. Sorry if this question has been asked before. I am currently trying the 10-oclock position and it seems to just stab me in the gut.
pjp74 is offline  
Old January 31, 2012, 04:47 PM   #2
g.willikers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2008
Posts: 5,326
Is that anything like the missionary position?
Ok, serious answer.
If there was an accidental discharge in the holster, would you rather the holster be in the 10 or 4 o'clock position?
Especially if sitting down.
__________________
Lock the doors, they're coming in the windows.
g.willikers is offline  
Old January 31, 2012, 07:02 PM   #3
ltc444
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 3, 2011
Location: Vernon AZ
Posts: 1,195
The position is what works best for the wearer. To me the important factor is that it allways be in the same postion. That way when I am required to draw I will not have to think about were the weapon is and i will (through practice) grip the weapon in the same manner and complete a smooth draw.
ltc444 is offline  
Old January 31, 2012, 07:12 PM   #4
pjp74
Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2011
Location: Anna, TX
Posts: 75
Thanks for the replies, LTC that makes very good sense, tried at the 10-oclock position, totally uncomfortable, going back to 8-oclock where I have always carried.
pjp74 is offline  
Old January 31, 2012, 10:02 PM   #5
Jeremiah/Az
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2009
Location: Az.
Posts: 509
The 4:00 position works best for me. I don't like any position in front where if something got caught in the trigger, coat string, shirttail, etc., you could shoot yourself on reholstering.
Jeremiah/Az is offline  
Old January 31, 2012, 10:36 PM   #6
KC Rob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2009
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 321
I have always carried at 6 O'clock, small of the back. If I had an ND back there, hopefully it would only hit me where the good Lord split me and I would be OK. That being said, I don't like that position for retention reasons, I am always afraid that if someone made my weapon they could sneak up behind me and snatch it. So, I am about to order a Theis Holster to try carrying at 4 O'Clock, I think that will work better for me.
__________________
KC Rob
KC Rob is offline  
Old January 31, 2012, 10:55 PM   #7
rem1858
Member
 
Join Date: December 12, 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ.
Posts: 76
An accidental discharge in the holster ?

You better get a different holster.

The trigger is covered until you withdraw the firearm from the holster...

I do not know about all the different and types of firarms out there but I carry a 1911.

If there is anyway to fire the pistol while it is holstered then you have a holster problem or a pistol problem.

1911 cocked and locked.
The most safe pistol there is.
It may look scary cocked and locked, but you must have three things enabled to fire the pistol.
Safety off- grip safety on-squeeze the trigger.

Too many different firearms and not enough education in my book.
Off my soap box.

Clarence
__________________
B.E. Master ranking
Distinguished Revolver Badge #99
EIC Service Pistol = 30 points (need a hard leg)
10z n Xs
rem1858 is offline  
Old January 31, 2012, 10:57 PM   #8
Viper225
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2009
Location: SC Missouri
Posts: 500
I carry at 4 O'Clock most all the time . Once in a while I will move the holster forward to 3 O'Clock. The 3 O'Clock position is normally for Open Carry.

I notice the Instructors on Best Defense carry at 2 O'Clock. What I find is 2 O'Clock will work well if you are on your feet, and are carrying a fairly short barrel handgun. 2 O'Clock leaves a lot to be desired for me when setting down.

If you can make 2 O'Clock for you, go for it. I spend way to much time setting or bending. I will stay with 4 O'Clock, it works best for me.

Like was mentioned above, I do not plan to start carrying in different locations. I like the handgun to be where it is supposed to be if I need it.

Bob
Viper225 is offline  
Old February 1, 2012, 12:10 AM   #9
pjp74
Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2011
Location: Anna, TX
Posts: 75
Viper, I like you spend a lot of time sitting or squatting/kneeling, doing refrigeration service work in the DFW area, it is not uncommon to have to drive 25-75 miles between jobs, I tried the 10 O'clock position, but I can't drive like that so it is back to 8 O'clock position.
pjp74 is offline  
Old February 1, 2012, 01:32 AM   #10
BillCA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2004
Location: Silicon Valley, Ca
Posts: 7,087
Holster positions should be thought out in advance. There is a reason most folks carry between 3 o'clock and 5 o'clock (7-9 for lefties).

Some of it depends on your physique, some of it on what you do for a living and the kinds of people you're likely to encounter. If you are frequently standing within close proximity of strangers, persons who may be angry or hostile, then wearing the gun in front may be a potential disaster if they see it and grab for it. If you have a "round" shape, sit a lot (driving, desk) or work close to a counter, carrying in front be difficult. On a "round" body shape the gun may be more visible. Sitting at a desk or standing at a counter can interfere with access. In driving, the gun can be uncomfortable under the seatbelt and a dangerous hazard in a collision (pressed into the body by the impact forces).

And, of course, the muzzle will point at your groin/thigh/femoral artery when sitting. This is not a good idea. Remember one of the safety rules is never depend on mechanical safeties and muzzle discipline.

The draw from the front is somewhat different for a lot of folks. My natural reaction (because I've always drawn from 3-5 o'clock) is to crouch during the draw. I expect to do this in reaction to the presentation of a knife, club, gun or other weapon. When accessing a front-carry gun, you stand more upright to leaning back as you draw. This runs counter to the instinct to duck or crouch as an attack begins. This is especially true if you have a few extra pounds around the middle - bending over makes the draw more difficult.

3 o'clock carry allows your arm/elbow to cover your weapon in crowded conditions (concerts, parties, holiday shopping). It also means someone in front has to get a step or to closer to grab for the weapon -- right where you can employ your legs, feet and knees too. The downside of 3 o'clock carry is that it can be more visible. Your silhouette may look asymmetrical with a bulge on your strong side even when carrying IWB. Skinny guys can get away with it, or men who's shoulders are wider than their waists.

4 o'clock to 5 o'clock positions are favored because the gun can usually hide in the "hollow" formed between the buttocks and the mid-back and the body partially hides the gun from frontal view. Techniques for the draw here are well developed and don't depend on you standing erect or crouching, nor does your body generally interfere with the draw.

6 o'clock is, in many people's opinion, a hazardous position to carry your weapon. While it's well concealed from the front, it is not always apparent if your cover garment has "flipped up" in the wind or from some other source to reveal your weapon. Additionally the hazard comes in to play if you are knocked down on your back on a hard surface (asphalt, concrete, hard earth). That gun or its grip is riding just next to one or more vertebrae in your spine. The metal is harder than the bone and impact with a hard surface is like being hit in the spine with a hammer. Several police officers have been permanently disabled in this manner. The potential for a life of pain (or worse) is too great for me to use this method.
__________________
BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)
BillCA is offline  
Old February 1, 2012, 01:32 AM   #11
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 1,709
You are talking about appendix carry. With the right gun, right holster and in the sweet spot it can be very comfortable, very fast and very concealable. I like to carry my BUG there, now a LCR 357.
__________________
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old February 1, 2012, 02:00 AM   #12
fivepaknh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 7, 2001
Location: Nashua, New Hampshire
Posts: 611
When on my belt my carry is always 7:00. I sit a lot at work and it's most comfortable there. Also, if I'm ever being robbed it looks as though I'm reaching for my wallet.
fivepaknh is offline  
Old February 1, 2012, 02:05 AM   #13
BillCA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2004
Location: Silicon Valley, Ca
Posts: 7,087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rem1858
If there is anyway to fire the pistol while it is holstered then you have a holster problem or a pistol problem.

1911 cocked and locked.
The most safe pistol there is.
It may look scary cocked and locked, but you must have three things enabled to fire the pistol.
Safety off- grip safety on-squeeze the trigger.

Too many different firearms and not enough education in my book.
Off my soap box.
Even a holster with a covered trigger can be fired in the holster -- if/when someone is attempting to snatch the gun and a wrestling match ensues. A high school friend's father, a police officer, was off duty when a guy attacked him, discovered the gun and tried to snatch it. He was able to put enough pressure through the leather to pull the trigger. Not on a 1911 or something like a High-Power. But on a Colt Diamondback DA revolver. Fortunately the round only lightly grazed his buttock. The powder burns hurt worse.

The 1911 is generally a safe pistol. As a reminder to never rely on mechanical safeties, there is a report where a Series 80 1911 discharged with both the manual thumb safety engaged and the grip safety engaged. Any gun with an inertial firing pin system can be forced to discharge. It may be unlikely in daily carry, even highly unlikely, but as soon as your angel looks away, that's when Mr. Murphy steps in to bite your behind.
__________________
BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)
BillCA is offline  
Old February 1, 2012, 05:24 AM   #14
BfloBill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 2, 2010
Location: Buffalo, N.Y.
Posts: 443
I usually carry at 3:00, I find it hides well and I like the idea of having it under my arm for retention purposes in a struggle, and when I bend over or squat (as if to tie my shoe or pick something up) it prints less than in the 4 or 5:00 position.
I have occasionally used appendix carry and crossdraw carry, but found that it interferes with the thumb break (I like the extra security) during my draw, so if I carry in either of those places I use a holster without a thumb break.
BfloBill is offline  
Old February 2, 2012, 02:06 AM   #15
TheNocturnus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,093
5:00 for primary and 2:00 for BUG.
__________________
My EDC:
Gun
Wallet
Brain (Use this one the most)
TheNocturnus is offline  
Old February 4, 2012, 09:00 AM   #16
m&p45acp10+1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,310
I am a south paw, and have found it most comfortable to carry in the just behind the 9 oclock position. I do a lot of moving around, bending, and sitting down. If I am going to be driving a long time I put the gun in the consile of the truck due to it being difficult to draw from the left side with the door close to my side. I also carry a BUG in my pocket.

If I know I am going to be doing a lot of moving and bending I just stick with carrying my BUG in my pocket. I do pretty much anything, and the gun does not become uncofortable.
__________________
No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.
m&p45acp10+1 is offline  
Old February 6, 2012, 03:59 AM   #17
PADefenseTrainer
Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2011
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 49
If I'm walking around I typically use the 4:00 position since it's concealable and easy to access. But what a lot of people don't think about is, I can also reach it with my left hand.

So if I'm injured, or just can't use my right hand for some reason, I have options.

If I'm driving long distances or through "questionable" areas, I like a cross-draw so I can access my firearm while sitting down.
__________________
NRA Life Member | NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle & Shotgun Instructor | NRA Chief Range Safety Officer

".. a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen..." - Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App.181)
PADefenseTrainer is offline  
Old February 6, 2012, 05:52 AM   #18
BlackFeather
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 12, 2009
Location: West Coast
Posts: 450
I've not carried as much as some of you have, but for access I do prefer appendix carry. I carry a knife weak side not much different than the pistol. But that's mostly IWB. I wear a lot of long coats in winter and would prefer OWB at 4:00 as most said with a knife in a shoulder harness or left hand 9:00.

I prefer Appendix because your hand moves past it in most cases. It just seems more natural.
__________________
"Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men." - Miyamoto Musashi

[Insert random irrelevant religious quote here]
BlackFeather is offline  
Old February 6, 2012, 04:21 PM   #19
Stevie-Ray
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: The shores of Lake Huron
Posts: 4,554
4:00 for me-actually more like 3:30 OWB.
__________________
Stevie-Ray
Join the NRA/ILA
I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.
Stevie-Ray is offline  
Old March 3, 2012, 08:38 PM   #20
Shakgul
Member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2012
Posts: 38
Practicing at home.

I am still waiting on my license and while practicing sitting and drawing at home I have found the 2 o clock the most comfortable, and the easiest to draw. While sitting the barrel is going over the out side of my hip. I just bought a Beretta p4 storm, full size .40. The slide is hard to pull and it's hard to pack 14 in the clip but it shoots nicely.
Shakgul is offline  
Old March 3, 2012, 09:36 PM   #21
napg19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2009
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 354
In the past I carried a P95 in the 6 o'clock position. One night I was walking the dog and walked down a small slope and on a wet spot and I slipped backwards right on top of the gun. Panic was my first thought cause it HURT. I was lucky that night and stopped the 6 position. Now days I carry a LCP in the 10 position(south paw) in a slot holster(as I call it). two pieces of leather sewn together with belt slots in it. Great when driving and sitting with good gun retention.
napg19 is offline  
Old March 4, 2012, 01:28 AM   #22
9mm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 9, 2011
Location: Land of the Free
Posts: 2,711
3 to 6 I say, in your case 9 to 6?

I tried 1 and 2 spots and well I hate it because its right on my leg and I feel like if I pulled my gun out in a hurry I could shoot myself and bleed out in seconeds in the front, so I think its stupid to carry there. I like 3 to 6, nothing to worry about. When you sit down with it at 1-2 spots it hurts, I can feel the barrel on my leg and doesn't feel right, as gun rule's say keep barrel away from anything you don't want to destory. I rather have my butt shot by mistake than a main artery.
Just my 2 cents.
__________________
See user title
9mm is offline  
Old March 4, 2012, 08:43 AM   #23
Hansam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 21, 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 763
Primary in 4. BUG in my boot.

My primary is either a Bersa UC 45 or a 1911. Neither will be very comfortable at 2 if I'm sitting and/or driving (which I do a lot of).

Oh and the last thing I want/need is for an AD and a 45 caliber JHP bullet to rip through my crotch area... lots very important items down there.
__________________
This is who we are, what we do.
Hansam is offline  
Old March 4, 2012, 08:51 AM   #24
AH.74
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2008
Location: Hermit's Peak
Posts: 623
Quote:
Ok, serious answer.
If there was an accidental discharge in the holster, would you rather the holster be in the 10 or 4 o'clock position?
Especially if sitting down.
Seriously? Do you really consider this for even a second?

Explain to me how a discharge is possible if I'm sitting and my gun is holstered AIWB.

Holster gremlins?
AH.74 is offline  
Old March 4, 2012, 09:05 PM   #25
BillCA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2004
Location: Silicon Valley, Ca
Posts: 7,087
Quote:
Originally Posted by AH.74
Explain to me how a discharge is possible if I'm sitting and my gun is holstered AIWB.
Without knowing the kind of gun you'd be carrying it makes it problematic.

If you're just sitting there it's unlikely. It's when other things happen that accidents can happen. Remember, we should never rely on a safety mechanism in lieu of muzzle and trigger discipline.

If your mode of carry points the muzzle at some portion of your anatomy, with reliance on a safety mechanism to prevent a discharge, that's considered an unsafe method of carry.

A gun at 2 o'clock with the muzzle pointed at the thigh, for example. But if the gun is at 1-2 o'clock in a crossdraw format, with the muzzle clear of the body, that's considered safe (not withstanding the deficiencies of crossdraw carry).
__________________
BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)
BillCA is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13129 seconds with 9 queries