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Old March 27, 2012, 12:15 PM   #1
Tanker6
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Success! a/k/a "the nipple wrench frustration"...

I've been working on my 1858 Remmies to get them set up for SASS/CAS in the Frontiersman category. As part of this process, I purchased some replacement (AMPCO/Treso) nipples. "All I had to do" (you've heard that one before, right? ), was get the old nipples out first.

The first cylinder was a breeze. #2....not so easy. Well, long story made short, three nipple wrenches later, I finally had success. I basically demolished two "store bought" wrenches and the 1/4" socket that I modified to be used as a nipple wrench before I received my "Ratcheting Nipple Wrench" (made by Cash) from the Possibles Shop yesterday. These nipples had been soaking in various things (to include WD-40, Liquid Wrench, Ballistol, etc.) for over 2 weeks. Maybe they finally gave up to the ever-present solvents OR maybe it was because the wrench actually fit better and provided more usable torque. My money is on the wrench.

So, I am now "sold" on the Cash ratcheting nipple wrench. And it was a whopping $12.95 plus shipping.

Oh yeah, I got my leather over the past weekend, so I'm now "certified" and ready to make smoke at our next match.

T6 a/k/a Chickahominy Charlie
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Old March 27, 2012, 01:24 PM   #2
Beagle333
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I'm a believer. That was the only thing I found to get mine out too (the first time).
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Old March 27, 2012, 04:46 PM   #3
Andy Griffith
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Now, if they only made a wrench tip to fit the nipples on the walkers and Paterson revolvers.
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Old March 27, 2012, 06:12 PM   #4
Doc Hoy
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This is what solved my nipple problem

I got the idea from Mykeal.

Made a jig which fits in the cylinder and then the whole mess goes into a vice. the purpose of the jig is to hold the cylinder and prevent it from turning. The socket is cut for the nipple. The quarter inch ratchet does all the work. Close up the vice so the socket can't slip.



Here is another view that shows how the jig rides against the vice.

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Old March 27, 2012, 08:43 PM   #5
Andy Griffith
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I like your setup Doc. I may have to try the same thing, but on a drill press.

In the past, I've applied heat, cold and generous amounts of penetrating oil and had them come out rather easy. I home built a wrench from a USA built 3/16" nut driver...it was hard, and hasn't slipped yet. I've meant to get one to cut and fit Dragoon/Walker nipples and work on one to fit Paterson nipples.
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Old March 27, 2012, 10:38 PM   #6
Fingers McGee
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This nipple wrench from the Possible Shop is absolutely the best nipple wrench I have ever used. It will get anything loose. I've been using one for almost 20 years on rifles, single shot pistols and revolvers. I've broken just about every other make and model wrench there is out there; but this one keeps on.

UNIVERSAL NIPPLE WRENCH

Colt Universal Nipple wrench is made from carbon steel and has nipple slots of about .196” - .236” and .275”, and screwdriver tip. Combination wrench fits 1851, 1860 and 1858 Cap & Ball Pistol - AMPCO, traditions and Musket Nipples. By Pedesoli.

Universal Nipple Wrench 45-016 $26.95

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Old March 28, 2012, 12:28 AM   #7
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I used a 3/16" socket (1/4" drive) and modified it with a dremel to perfectly fit the nipples on my 1860. I also went through a couple "regular" nipple wrenches that were too soft or too brittle. I know its painful but if you use a high quality socket it will easily overcome the nipple. Kroil works pretty good too!
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Old March 28, 2012, 06:22 AM   #8
mykeal
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My original scheme, which Doc successfully improved, used a drill press. Installed a small vise on the press table, inserted two dowels in the chambers and chucked the dowels in the vise, locked a socket modified as a nipple wrench into the drill chuck using a piece of hex stock, (unplugged the press!) ran the press head down to fit the socket over the nipple, locked the head down and turned the chuck by hand. The drill press and vise keep the geometry perfect and all you need to do is apply the force. Do not turn on the drill press.
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Old March 28, 2012, 06:27 AM   #9
Doc Hoy
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Andy

I can't take credit for this set-up. Mykeal came up with it and indeed I think he uses a drill press. You can tell that with me, function is far more important than form. I should make the jig look prettier.

I go through this "take-the-nipples-out" routine with every pistol I bring into the house. I am one of those shooters who thinks you should be able to get the nipple(s) out of a black powder firearm.

In revolvers, specifically the cylinder is much easier to clean properly with the nipples out.

When I reassemble after cleaning, I don't make them very tight. Just snug.

I don't own a revolver with tight nipples.
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Old March 28, 2012, 08:52 AM   #10
Hellgate
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I tend to leave my nipples in unless there is a problem. I take them out upon initial exam of the new acquisition but then re-install them with anti seize lube on the threads. They are a little harder to clean with nipples in but I go through a lot of Q-tips and canned air. I find no fault in anyone who is more thorough than me regarding gun hygiene.
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Old March 29, 2012, 01:43 PM   #11
Tanker6
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I didn't see Fingers' "multi" tool nipple wrench, but I'd have tried that had I seen one for sale.

The modified 1/4" drive socket was looking good.....right up to the point when it snapped off one side of the socket.

I did see Doc's set up in another post (yes, I did some searching ), but that was a bit complicated for this country boy....

As an update, I bored out the nipple recesses (remember, 1858) as per some instructions I got from Noz some time ago in order to accommodate a capper, then replaced the nipples with AMPCO/Treso nipples yesterday. Yes, I used anti-seize.

Then, I went out to my little target range and let a few cylinders loose....while wearing my new leather!

My "new" lesson is that I need better lubrication on the cylinder pins. After only two cylinders each, they were starting to bind. Caps fell off ok....only one fell in the palm of my gun hand and I've got the burn scar to prove it.

.....and I wanted to switch from smokeless because??????

T6 a/k/a Chickahominy Charlie
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Old March 29, 2012, 02:00 PM   #12
Doc Hoy
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Because......

.......BP is more fun!
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Old March 29, 2012, 02:53 PM   #13
Andy Griffith
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Talking about that...I too remove every nipple when I clean my revolvers. I did get a 6x.75 finish tap and run that down and through every gun that I use- it made getting the nipples in and out a breeze. I do lube the nipples with a bit of breech plug lube and it makes them even easier every time I take them out- and I have never had one back out during several cylinders full during a session. The Treso nipples can be a bit hard to start, but I only start them with my fingers.

I use a small pipe cleaner in each nipple and then throw them into an ultrasonic cleaner on low for a little while and my Treso's come out looking almost new.
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Old March 29, 2012, 07:57 PM   #14
Fingers McGee
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Tanker/Charlie.

Here's the link at the Possible Shop page. It's the one all the way at the bottom of the page.

http://possibleshop.com/s-s-nipple-w...cbnipplewrench

How come you're not here at Ft Parker shooting????
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Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters
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Old March 29, 2012, 11:01 PM   #15
Bill Akins
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It doesn't matter if your revolver's got tight or loose nipples, because when hunting Elephant in Alabama the Tuscaloosa.


.
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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

Last edited by Bill Akins; March 29, 2012 at 11:24 PM.
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Old March 30, 2012, 06:22 AM   #16
Doc Hoy
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C'mon Bill

That's irrelevant.


No, That your elephant.
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Old March 30, 2012, 08:27 AM   #17
Bill Akins
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Speaking of Elephants, I once shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know.

Attsa righta boss, you tell em. Honk honk!

Which reminds me, I resent that inuendo. And if I were a man I'd tell you a thing or two, and don't you let me forget it! The very idea. Just like I always say, when your relatives are at your door, it's because money came inuendo.

Speaking of loose nipples, here's how I tighten up the nipples on the cylinder of my 1858 Remington revolver.

Reminds me of Franco Nero unscrewing a revolver's trigger guard with his teeth in the spaghetti western movie "Django" (Wish I could use that Groucho pic here as an avatar, if we had avatars here).

Now say the magic woid and win a duck. (only old guy baby boomers will get all of this).



.
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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

Last edited by Bill Akins; March 30, 2012 at 02:02 PM.
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Old March 30, 2012, 09:01 AM   #18
Bill Akins
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Sorry guys, I couldn't resist the levity. Loose nipples made me think of the Tuscaloosa! But seriously, I gotta get myself one of those Cash ratcheting nipple wrenches. Great idea by the way on that vice ratchet setup by MyKeal and Doc.




.
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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

Last edited by Bill Akins; March 30, 2012 at 09:07 AM.
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Old March 30, 2012, 07:17 PM   #19
mykeal
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I'm actually afraid to open this thread any more.
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Old March 30, 2012, 07:57 PM   #20
Andy Griffith
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What is the torque value that nipples should be torqued to?

That's the sixty-four thousand dollar question...
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Old March 30, 2012, 09:59 PM   #21
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Snug (aka seated) plus 1/4 turn, no more.
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Old April 1, 2012, 12:25 PM   #22
Andy Griffith
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That was a joke.

I tighten them until she hollers.

I was hoping someone would have asked if metric or standard.
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Old April 10, 2012, 02:24 PM   #23
Tanker6
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Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I've been busy.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fingers McGee
How come you're not here at Ft Parker shooting????
Cuz I was supposed to be in mediation on 3/30. Of course, it was cancelled/rescheduled shortly before and I couldn't get the "logistics" in place on the short notice I had. We really wanted to be there, but.....



Shot my '58 Remmies at our local shoot last weekend. The new nipples peformed well. Not one dropped cap. In fact, I shot my first clean match.....which since I was shooting BP wasn't necessarily "clean," but I managed to hit all of the targets.

I still have some issues with fouling in my rifle, but I think I have a line on how to fix that.

So, my follow-up question is this -- What do you guys recommend as lubricant for the cylinder pin? I've tried two things already and I'm not really happy with either one. I'm only getting 2-3 stages before I see binding and have to clean and relube.

T6 a/k/a Chickahominy Charlie
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Old April 10, 2012, 03:03 PM   #24
Hellgate
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Tanker,
What I do for my Uberti Remingtons is to keep a small plastic squeeze bottle in my shooting box and between stages, after charging & greasing all loaded chambers I put a single drop of oil (I use olive but others like Ballistol) right at the juncture of the cylinder front and the frame. I then jiggle or twirl the cylinder a few times (holding the barrel up) to work it onto the cylinder pin. This 10 second procedure gets me through another stage or two without beginning to bind. If I'm shooting full loads (30grs powder) I do it each stage if shooting light loads (20grs) it's done every 2-3 stages. No need to pull the cylinder and get all messy. Save that til the final after match cleaning.
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Old April 10, 2012, 06:55 PM   #25
arcticap
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I would like to try the breech plug grease that I use on my nipples because the mineral oil that I use now dissipates pretty rapidly. The breech plug grease does contain some graphite which some folks can simply mix into the grease manually if theirs doesn't contain any.
I don't know if Vaseline would be any better than mineral oil since it contains the same basic mineral oil ingredient but in a different form, but it does melt at a relatively low temperature.
I think that some folks may use heavier synthetic greases, lithium grease or maybe even consider trying an anti-seize. But whichever product is chosen it would make sense to test each one out first to see how it works.
I also recall that some folks reportedly use Pam cooking spray (with olive or vegetable oil but not flavored) or its generic equivalent.
Sometimes competitive shooting requires trying out new products that a person may not normally try if only plinking because they have more time to wipe and lube between loading cylinders.
What have you tried that doesn't seem to last long enough?

Last edited by arcticap; April 12, 2012 at 06:17 AM.
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