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Old April 30, 2012, 08:52 PM   #1
bigbird34
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1894 winchester take down 38-55

Well,my good friend stopped by again and showed me this 1894 Winchester in 38-55 ,in a "take down" model ....It has a Nickel steel barrel,25" long ...he stated the gun was manufactured in 1894 " 1st year of production" it has a shotgun butt,the rifling is great ....The gun is worn by time,about 50% bluing left,some marks and dings on the stock but no cracks .
He also stated that the rifle was not "lettered' it orginaly came through with a 32-20 barrel,and was sent back and the 38-55 barrel was installed .
The take down part of this rifle works great ....!
s/n is 47XX.

So what's it worth,as it may be going to the auctions

Thank-you Bigbird34

www.photobucket.com/1894win
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Old April 30, 2012, 09:19 PM   #2
gunsmokeTPF
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I'm guessing that you mean it's calibre wasn't original to that which was stated in the letter from Cody Wyo. Also, you might be confusing the 32-20 with 32-40. If the barrel was replaced at the winchester factory it would be considered original. If that work was done after 1905 the barrel should have stamped on it a letter P in a circle(parts) along with wp(win proof) showing that it was a replacement part with the work done by winchester. There would be no wp on the reciever.

I have no idea how one could even determine if a barrel was factory replaced prior to 1905 with just the P stamping and without some kind of receipt for documentation. In that case the work could've been done by anyone and people always sent away for parts back then. I can't tell from your photo what stamp is on the barrel. It appears to be wp and I only see one stamp. If it's just wp then my opinion would be the barrel came off of another rifle and not done at the factory. You need a better closeup of stamp and other markings.

I have an 1892 winchester trapper with 17" barrel that was factory installed after 1905 and stamped with the P and the wp. If possible you should have like I received, some sort of written opinion from an historian located at Cody, stating they believed the work was done by winchester.

That rifle appears to be in very nice conditon and being a takedown does increase it's value, also the rear buckhorn sight elevator is of the later style and many times are missing. The wood looks pretty darn good too, as does the barrel blueing.

Maybe someone on this thread, who can be considered an expert can give you better info and perhaps an idea of what the value may be. I sometimes have a lot of trouble where photos are concerned.

Last edited by gunsmokeTPF; April 30, 2012 at 09:56 PM.
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Old May 1, 2012, 06:26 AM   #3
bigbird34
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P=Parts WP= Proof

GunsmokeTPF.. Thank-you. I have looked the barrel over and cannot find a P or WP,if it would be under the foearm,I'm not going to take the gun apart to look for it ,as it is not my rifle....Would any numbers be visible when it was in it's take down mode ??? That I can do !

Any more info would be appreciated .....

Thank-you,

BB34
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Old May 1, 2012, 06:30 AM   #4
bigbird34
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WP

Woooooooooops, Yes there is a WP in a circle close to where the barrel meets the receiver .....old eyes just didn't spot it ...

Value would be $__________I might have to own this !

TIA,Jim
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Old May 1, 2012, 12:20 PM   #5
gunsmokeTPF
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I would have the rifle checked out by someone that's an expert, who could actually pick it up and examine it in person. I normally would expect to see that circled P just above the proof indicating it was a factory part replacement and not just taken off another rifle, but then again stranger things can happen where these guns are concerned.

Don't take this to bank, but not seeing it in person, or knowing if it's factory I could only guess as to what it may be worth if original. In addition the normal barrel length should be 24", or 26" unless you measured wrong. When measuring a barrel you go from the muzzle to the receiver and then allow 1/2 of an inch for the thread. It could of course be that 25" was special ordered. That rifle in original condition could be in the $4000 range give, or take $500. It can be much less if it was tampered with privately, or a bit more if the original finish is greater than I could see.

Whatever the situation is that rifle's worth a nice piece of change and shouldn't be given away. It's calibre and takedown configuration isn't seen everyday, especially in that condition. I have a 94src from the 20's in that calibre and it's a terrific round and my all time favorite where the 94 is concerned. I'd like someone else on this forum to give their opinion for my own curiousity. I've had many collectable winchesters and just took my best shot at this. We learn something new from others all the time and I always enjoy reading what others may think. Best of luck with it.

Last edited by gunsmokeTPF; May 1, 2012 at 12:29 PM.
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Old May 1, 2012, 12:42 PM   #6
PetahW
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It is a shooter-grade Model 1894 Takedown Rifle, made in 1895, not in 1894 - still most likely worth $2K.

Here's a solid frame, listed @ $1300, that remains unsold:

http://www.gunsinternational.com/Win...n_id=100240213

Your rifle has a 2nd Model receiver, that has the guide screw heads INSIDE the receiver, not readily visible on the outer receiver walls.
The 2nd Model's production change didn't take effect until 1895.

This is your receiver



And, this is a 1st year, 1st Model receiver



.
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Old May 1, 2012, 03:30 PM   #7
bigbird34
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Proof Mark

Thank-you gentlemen,I have looked at the WP Circle proof and it looks as if it has been struck twice ??? The circle is not connected ....and the P is over the W ....The barrel is 25" from muzzle to receiver ,so add another 1/2" for a total of 25.5" barrel ....






Who would be an expert in or around Burlington Vt ?

Thanks again guys...

BB34
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Old May 1, 2012, 03:44 PM   #8
gunsmokeTPF
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It's not all that important whether, or not the rifle is 1st, or 2nd year production, since it's very early and pre 98. Petahw showed very good observation regarding the receiver. The 30-30 and 32 win was a common calibre where others like 38-55 are a bit more scarce.

The shotgun butt also is seen less than the crescent style, but being a takedown could almost double it's value. This rifle has all the bells and whistles that people just love to have, but like I said before the originality and condition is a very important factor when determining it's value.

Without that letter you can't even determine the year of manufacture. My trapper's serial#88xxx in the Bluebbok indicates 1894, but in my letter it was actually mfg in 1898. The $2000 estimate would probably be a good one if winchester didn't do the changes, but is low if it is in fact original. The other rifle pictured for $1300 is a standard version with a tang sight and comes nowhere near the one you have. All opinions you get on this thread certainly have value, but won't be the final say.

Last edited by gunsmokeTPF; May 2, 2012 at 09:48 PM.
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Old May 1, 2012, 04:55 PM   #9
PetahW
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[The barrel is 25" from muzzle to receiver ,so add another 1/2" for a total of 25.5" barrel ....]

FWIW, barrel length is properly measured from the inside, via dropping a rod downbore against the face of the closed breechbolt, marking the rod at the muzzle, then withdrawing the rod and measuring it from the downbore end to the mark.

AFAIK, the earliest DOCUMENTED (aka: verifiable) Model 1894 of any ilk, made in a caliber other than .38-55 was SN 5056, assembled/shipped 9/4/1895.
That tells me that Winchester made at least 5,000 Model 1894's in .38-55 before 3rd quarter 1895, which makes that chambering the most common, and not scarcer, in those early Model 1894's.

It's also been seen that, once the .30WCF was introduced, more than a few .38-55 owners had their Model 1894's so rebarreled, making the Thutty-thutty chambering a virtual tidal wave.


.

Last edited by PetahW; May 1, 2012 at 05:13 PM.
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Old May 1, 2012, 07:30 PM   #10
gunsmokeTPF
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The 38-55 may not have been scarcer in 1895, but considering the number of 94's manufactured in total it sure is a lot scarcer than 30-30's in 2012 and can cost a heck of a lot more too. You could probably bump up the price 1/4 with any caliber other than 30-30, or .32 winchester. The 38-55 isn't the scarcest, but is in big damand compared to 30-30's anywhere. I've loved that round for many years and have been watching how some manufacturers are almost tripping over eachother to produce that calibre in their new rifles. At least the smart ones are.

Also, the 38-55 was a very well respected calibre back then and just like today, some people can't help but through word of mouth have to get the new stuff coming out. Back when the 94 was first being sold, there was a problem with delayed production of the 30-30's and people still were comfortable with the old cartridge, cause it was already proven to be a great round.

I have no problem with the 30-30, cause I've had a couple of them, which included a flatband carbine that I sold several years ago that was gorgeous. The 30-30 has probably taken more deer than any other round, especially in the northeast. I also liked my old .32 winchster rifle that was freaky dead on, but that's not the point. When someone's got a winchester 94 for sale it's probably gonna be a 30-30, though they can be very dare as well. As far as measuring the barrel length I think my way worked for me for almost 50 years, give, or take a year, or two.

This is why it's good to have differences in opinion, cause we can all choose to agree to disagree, while not being disagreeable. I've owned and sold a number of winchesters over the years and find out new things about them all the time. I can only go by the amount of money I spent and put back in my pocket where winchesters are concerned and admit I'm not an expert, just been around them a lot.

Last edited by gunsmokeTPF; May 1, 2012 at 07:38 PM.
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