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Old March 23, 2012, 08:02 PM   #1
frncfish2
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9mm or 40 ???

i'm looking to purchase another gun, i have the S&W Model 66 357 ,38 , The Dan Wesson 44 Mag w 9 1/2 " barrel , a couple 22 's. I'm leaning towards the 40 S&W . Any Pros or Cons verse's the 9 mm? can anyone help me decide ? Or even the .41 mag???
Frank...
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Old March 23, 2012, 08:11 PM   #2
Hansam
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I'd go with a 9mm over a 40S&W any day of the week. Here are my reasons:

1. Cost - 9mm ammo is considerably cheaper than 40S&W. I can buy Winchester White box 9mm for $25/100rds. The cheapest 40S&W I can find is Tulammo at $19.99/50rds.

2. Recoil - a 40S&W has more recoil than a .45acp (I've fired them both from Glocks ::yuk:: and found the 40S&W to be snappier) so it definitely WILL have more recoil than a 9mm.

3. Capacity - 9mm guns tend to have more capacity due to smaller diameter of the round.

4. Effectiveness - with modern technology 9mm rounds can be just as effective as a 40S&W. No need to spend the extra money, lose the extra ammo cap AND suffer more recoil for the same or almost the same effect.

EDIT:

About .41mag - do you reload your own ammo? If you don't I'd stay away from the .41mag.
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Old March 23, 2012, 08:18 PM   #3
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While the 9mm are capable for SD the 40 S&W are more powerful. Whether you can handle it is up to you. I have a Sigma 9 I'm happy with. I have the Sigma 40 on order so soon I'll find out how it goes. It is back ordered for now.

EDIT: by the way the Sigma 9 holds 16 rnds while the Sigma 40 holds 14 rnds so that's pretty close. Both guns are the same size.
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Old March 23, 2012, 08:27 PM   #4
frncfish2
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9mm or 40 ???

Thanks Guys,
I do my own re -loading , save alot of money for my 44 mag, and rifles. i"ll check them all out and maybe flip a coin ... Hahaha
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Old March 23, 2012, 08:32 PM   #5
Dashunde
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What do you want to use it for?

For self defense? Hands down .40.
Folks like to say that a 9mm is the same, but its not.
9mm has to be +p+ to compare and the recoil and shootablity will be the same or worse than 40 at that point.
All you need do is shoot them back-to-back against all sorts of targets ranging from chunks of wood to gallons of water.. the difference in recoil and object destruction gives very clear and obvious favor to the 40.
9mm is to 40 as 380 is to 9mm.
Many think that 40 gives 45acp a run for its money, I'd agree in many ways.

40 doesnt really give up many rounds to 9mm either.
For example, a Glock 26 is 10+1 whereas a Glock 27 is 9+1.
I'll take the G27 everytime everyday.

40 is about $3-4 per 50 FMJ more than 9mm.

For plinking around and range work? 9mm without a doubt.
Its cheap centerfire fun.
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Old March 23, 2012, 08:51 PM   #6
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I agree with Hansam that the cost is in favor of the 9. If saving money is a major concern, go with the 9.

I think the extra rounds are negligible. I know you’re not looking at a Glock so I am not sure if this is a valid argument, but my Glock 22 (which shoots .40) holds the NJ state magazine limit of 15 rounds. I don’t know the capacity of the mags you are looking at, but I couldn’t imagine that much of a difference. I am going to assume their may be a few round difference. If you cannot hit your target with 14, then I highly doubt the extra few rounds would make that much of a difference.

I disagree that a 9 is just as powerful as a .40. All I have read always concluded that a .40 round will have more stopping power than a 9 round. That does not undermine the effectiveness of a 9mm. A 9mm hollow point would def. ruin the day of a person on the receiving end of it. That being said, if I had to depend my life on it, I would go .40 any day.

Which leads me to a question, what are you planning to do with the gun? If you are looking for a self-defense caliber than everything else I said is insignificant. Go with the round you can shoot most accurately with. The .40 does have a lot more barrel lift than a 9. In fact, I agree with Hansam that it has more lift than a .45. If you are having a hard time controlling the muzzle flip at the range, forget about trying to affectively control it under a highly stressful situation. Plus it took a lot more practice for me to have effective follow up shots in my .40 than in a 9.

But when all is said and done, I would still take my .40 over a 9 any day of the week. That’s just my personal preference though. I consider myself pretty proficient with my .40, but if I was unable to hit the broadside of a barn with it, my view would be considerably different.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old March 23, 2012, 08:55 PM   #7
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http://www.neiassociates.org/caliber.htm

^^^I urge everyone to read the entire article. In most defensive handgun situations, fast follow up shots are important. The 'one shot stop' rate in the article is very close for all major calibers so I urge everyone basically to shoot quality JHPs that you are most comfortable/accurate with.
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Old March 23, 2012, 09:29 PM   #8
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.40 is a bit more expensive, but that is mitigated somewhat if you reload (and if I understand it correctly, easier to reload than 9mm). I recently bought a G35 and I'm really liking how .40 feels in a full-size range gun. I'm not sure I'd be so crazy about it in a compact or sub-compact carry gun though.
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Old March 23, 2012, 09:47 PM   #9
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I like the 40 in a gun with a bit more heft, like my SIG P229. I don't like it in some of the very light polymer guns.

I think either round is effective.
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Old March 23, 2012, 09:47 PM   #10
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40S&W hands down for a carry or for personal protection I carry an .40 cal XDm and its almost as smooth as a .45 1911. Yes, new bullet technology can expand better than years ago, but the 40 cal still has more energy (stopping power) than a 9mm, you can go with a heavier grain hollow point and it will have much more stopping power than a 9mm. I would go with a .45 personally. Capacity wise if you can stop with one shot you don't need 3x capacity. Take the colt 1911 for example. There is a reason why some special forces are going back to that gun. Incredibly accurate and will put down a threat with 1 round. This means you get to engage other threats faster. When the military went with the 9mm Beretta they had additional capacity (15 vs 7), but it took many more rounds per engagement. So for protection I would always go with more power over capacity. Plus, you should be able to place your round effectively with one shot. So get out and shoot it.
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Old March 23, 2012, 09:51 PM   #11
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.40 over 9mm for me. If I could not handle the .40, I would not feel unprotected by the 9mm with the right ammo.
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Old March 23, 2012, 10:07 PM   #12
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my motto is KISS. for semi autos i stick with 22's, 9mm's and 45's.....oh and 1 little amt 380 thats been riding in my pocket for 30 years.
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Old March 23, 2012, 10:23 PM   #13
RC20
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For self defense? Hands down .40.
Folks like to say that a 9mm is the same, but its not.
9mm has to be +p+ to compare and the recoil and shootablity will be the same or worse than 40 at that point.
All you need do is shoot them back-to-back against all sorts of targets ranging from chunks of wood to gallons of water.. the difference in recoil and object destruction gives very clear and obvious favor to the 40.
9mm is to 40 as 380 is to 9mm.
Many think that 40 gives 45acp a run for its money, I'd agree in many ways.
Wow, you shoot jugs of water and then that convinces you its the best round.

Same was done with the 5.56, hmmm. General very impressed. Sadly, exploding jugs of water means nothing.

Real world statistics (not jugs of water) say that a 9mm modern SD round has the same lethality as anything up to 45 ACP (and that includes 357 sig and 40 S&W).

Its all about shot placement. Multiple hits to ensure incapacitation. 9mm does shoot easier and helps shot placement as well as the follow up shots.

And that's from an old time big bore hand gun advocate. The times they have a changed.

ps: 40 is easier to reload becuase you don't have to handle those pesky little shells

41 magnum is a great round, though I am not sure how it plays out here.
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Old March 23, 2012, 10:41 PM   #14
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4. Effectiveness - with modern technology 9mm rounds can be just as effective as a 40S&W. No need to spend the extra money, lose the extra ammo cap AND suffer more recoil for the same or almost the same effect.
OK, the usual "can be" just as effective "if you have the right ammo" or "if you hit 'em right" argument. The .40 is still better than the 9mm, since the same ammo technology that elevated the 9mm to respectable status keeps the .40 ahead of it.

Yes, the 9mm is good. If you want to carry a 9mm, then do it. I sometimes do, though .40 or .45 are my preferred calibers.

The .40 has proven to have the advantage of being more effective than the 9mm and it has better ammo capacity than the .45.

Second: I don't "suffer" more recoil. My P229's handle hot loads very well. On the other hand, I've shot the G23 and can understand how you'd suffer if you had to fire very much. Didn't care for it. Even the G23 has noticeable more recoil than my P229, or the P226.

If you want to select SD caliber based on cost instead of what might be better at saving your life, that's your call.

Being able to afford more practice is a consideration. But it's easy enough to gain good skills by shooting a lot with the 9mm and a lesser amount with the .40 which you could easily add to your armory.

Personally, I feel alright with the 9mm, especially with +P ammo like HST, CorBon DPX or Gold Dot. I feel I'm a little better armed with a .40 cal or .45--even with a single stack mag.

The point: Don't make apologies , just carry the 9mm.

Last edited by Nnobby45; March 23, 2012 at 10:51 PM.
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Old March 24, 2012, 08:23 AM   #15
Dashunde
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Wow, you shoot jugs of water and then that convinces you its the best round.
Dont be silly, of course not.
40 consistently abuses everything it hits more than 9mm does.
9mm makes the jug leak, 40 blows it apart.
9mm passes through or sticks in the chunk of wood, 40 splinters and shatters the same.
Plinking around with them both quickly eludes to how either would effect bone and tissue.

Theres also the arguement about modern bullet technology that has improved the 9mm a lot.
Sure, but that same technology is applied to the 40, and its frontal area is 25% greater before expansion and its heavier.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not dogging on the 9.. I happily carry a PM9 daily and never feel as if its going to let me down.
Just saying 40 hits harder, noticably.
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Old March 24, 2012, 10:40 AM   #16
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The .40 has proven to have the advantage of being more effective than the 9mm and it has better ammo capacity than the .45.
First, if you like the 40 and carry it I have no issues or problem. I loved my 41 magnum over the 44. I could shoot it better. My brother carried a 357 and he shot it very well. He was better off with the 357 than my 41, I was better off than I was with the 44. Neither of us is recoil sensitive. I used to shoot 7mm Remington Magnum. Now that's a brute (worse than 338 and 375 HH magnums)


However, there is the consistent argument that a 40 is better than a 9mm for self defense. Sig 357 owners tend to claim the same thing as do 45 owners.

You can take water just, gelliten, wall board and shoot it with 357, 40, 45 and it looks impressive and it means nothing. All the calibers above 9mm look pretty doing that.

What counts is real world shooting statistics, not jugs of water or pounds of energy or the angle of the sun and the moon. You cannot extrapolate from water jugs to the real world (well you can but you are fooling yourself which is fine, but you also are giving others bad advice)

If you follow the results of what happens when people are shot in the real world, there is ZERO statistical difference between the calibers. Nada, none, zip. To say there is is simply foolish. There are people out there that still believe the earth is flat.

Jugs of water and gelatin are not real world.

There is nothing wrong with liking the 40, there is a serious problem when you contend its better than the 9mm in the real world.

The reason 9mm has gotten as lethal as the other calibers is the modern technology. It needed a lot of help. Its improved enormously. The others improved only a small amount. That means they are all on equal basis now.
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Old March 24, 2012, 11:10 AM   #17
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Either are great rounds assuming the recoil of the .40 does not bother one and in your case shooting what you have most likely not.

For .40 my preference is easily the SIG P229 and there are a lot of them for sale as CPO - Certified Pre Owned for around $550. That is how I got mine and it as as new inside and out.

For myself I have 9MM, .40, and .45 and like them all.

The 9MM does have lower recoil and costs less to shoot.

IMO shot placement is the most important factor in SD if using a quality SD round in 9MM or .40.

For me a huge advantage of the .40 was it was the only pistol round readily available during the last ammo shortage. Not sure what the future will hold in that regard. For myself I have increased my ammo reserves substantially due to my experience with that.
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Old March 24, 2012, 12:41 PM   #18
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Get the one you want. It doesnt matter 9mm .40 .45 all work about the same. All are better than the others at some things. I like 9mm cause i can shoot it more i have all 3 but the 9mm is the one i like the most.
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Old March 24, 2012, 04:57 PM   #19
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However, there is the consistent argument that a 40 is better than a 9mm for self defense. Sig 357 owners tend to claim the same thing as do 45 owners.
Why would there be an argument? The .40 launches a heavier projectile faster than slower moving lighter projectiles from the 9mm. It has more kinetic energy which, in itself doesn't mean too much, but through good bullet technology can harness that energy and provide quicker and more expansion along with adequate penetration.

I'm an owner of all of those calibers, and some you didn't mention. I've carried them all at one time or another. I think the above mentioned calibers are relatively equal in effectiveness. All better than the 9mm. But not enough to shun the 9, which, as mentioned, I sometimes carry. One experienced individual I know, who's been in harms way (directly) would worry more about what's for lunch than being armed with a 9mm and CorBon DPX. I agree.

If, hypothetically, I were limited to one semi-auto for all applications, it could very well be the SIG P228 9mm. For some it may be the G19. Not being limited, I prefer the more effective .45 or .40 cal.
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Old March 24, 2012, 05:10 PM   #20
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I like the .40 a lot, and I do consider it just a hair better for self-defense.

With a caveat!

I like the .40 in a way that's VERY gun-dependent. My Beretta PX4 handles the round like a champion, as does, for instance, the Sig Sauer P229. Guns initially designed around the .40 really rock the round, and make it very manageable.

In a lot of compact and subcompact guns, though, and guns originally designed for the 9x19, I prefer the 9x19.

Then you have random guns like the Glock 27 subcompact that handle .40 just excellent. Or the Walther PPS which is clearly better in a 9 (my subjective impression).

If you've decided on a platform and you're not sure which round, it really behooves you to shoot it before you buy.
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Old March 24, 2012, 05:18 PM   #21
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Nnobby45 Quote.

The .40 has proven to have the advantage of being more effective than the 9mm and it has better ammo capacity than the .45.

When and how has the .40 being shown to be more effective than the 9mm what do you mean by more effective. ?

I would go for 9mm or .45 i can have 19 rds in my cz or 14 in my .45 . I dont see what advantage the .40 would give me over the other 2 calibers.
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Old March 24, 2012, 07:12 PM   #22
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I think this thread has been around since they invented the .40 caliber to compare it to the 9mm.
Its been argued ad nauseum for ages.
Get the one you can hit the target with best.
I do not need a gun that I can not hit what I am shooting at with.

end captain obvious statement
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Old March 24, 2012, 07:29 PM   #23
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Kind of the handgun equivalent of the Ford vs. Chevy argument.

Personally I like a 9mm. Only because I can afford to put more shots down range, and practice makes perfect.

Meth fueled zombie/boogie men aside, a couple rounds center of mass are going to be pretty effective from most any handgun, so my advise would be to buy whichever feels better in your hand.
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Old March 24, 2012, 07:59 PM   #24
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40S&W all the way...you cannot compare a 9mm to a 40cal...the 40 is faster more powerful and carries more kinetic energy,,,,i carry a glock22 the magazine capacity is 15 plus 1 a glock 17 9mm carries 16 plus 1,,,,i would rather be short 1 round and carry a faster bigger more potent round....go with the 40S&W and you will never be unhappy unless the snappy recoil is too much,,,my wife carries a pt 709 slim in 9mm,,,however she can fire my glock22 all day...she is 4'10" and 110 pounds soaking wet,,,peeople bash the 40cal more than any othe caliber ,,,,silly people....
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Old March 24, 2012, 08:39 PM   #25
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i shoot 9 because i can put more rounds on target quicker. one shot stops are rare and the differences in real world situations are negligible. its all numbers that really dont translate well into true lethality. go to the range and rent a firearm in each caliber. find out which one you can shoot better and go with that. for me, i will take my cz75 9mm or the 97 in 45 over the 40 because i shoot each more effectively than the 75 chambered in 40. I dont like the recoil pattern. its such a quick snap that the perceived recoil is greater than the 45 since the energy is exerted over a shorter period of time.
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