Vaquero or Cimarron P?

[lawnboy]

The next gun on my want list is a single action cowboy style revolver in .45LC.

Simple question: Vaquero or Cimarron P?

I had it narrowed to just a Vaquero, but I handled a Cimarron and it was very nice. Advice please.

Thanks

[bdhuntr]

I wanted a SAA clone that was a true SAA action. That was a Cimarron. I bought a Model P with a 4-3/4" bbl. And it is a real shooter.



This was a 6-shot group (1 followed by 5) at 21' with 235 grain Black Dawge cartridges loaded with blackpowder.

[yournodaisy]

Cimmaron......it aint a cowboy gun if the firing pin isn't on the hammer..

[Shadi Khalil]

I have and would recommend the Vaquero. Aside from the added value of the strong Ruger frames, you don't have to worry about half cocking and skipping chambers. So, on the rare occasion that I wear the Vaquero, I can safely carry six. What's not to like about that?

[gak]

Good question. Answer is a bit apples and oranges and a little more complex. Ask yourself,

- Is it the general "cowboy" look and feel you"re after, or literal "Colt" translation? If former, the Vaquero--or better yet the more Colt-sized New Vaquero if you don't need to shoot super hot loads, plus the reasons Shadi stated well. Since there is the newer/current smaller "mid frame" New Vaquero, in addition to the discontinued old, large-frame Vaquero, you don't have choose the non Rugers like the Cimarron *just* to get the "correct" Colt size experience--like you did 8-10+ years ago.
- Is it (especially) appealing to have a rugged gun reminiscent of old west but which can also safely shoot six, If so, the Ruger may be for you.
- Action feel. The Cimarron P will give you a "closer to Colt" feel including the famous four-click 'snick-snick' hammer action.
- The Cimarron (if the blued model) has the better color case hardened-like finish versus the old/large frame Vaquero and early New Vaqueros. The current/recent (several years') NVs are just blued. If that's fine with you, not an issue of course.
- Need for hot/heavy hunting loads (.45)? - original large frame Vaquero

- Confidence level? Depends on the use(s) intended. I've got both stated in the OP's inquiry, but in .44 Special (as well as .44 Mag "old" Vaq and .357 also in NV). The Cimarron is an excellent piece, fun to shoot and handle (I do not CAS) and gets "fondled" more. Really does give that Colt look and feel. As a "working gun, hunting/camping or trekking into the wilderness? - it's the Ruger. Were I to have to keep just one, a Ruger--choosing practical use over affection, in a sense.
.

[Jim March]

What Gak said. Ruger makes an overall better gun than either Uberti or Pietta even if you don't factor in Ruger's six-up (or in some case 8 or 10-up) safe carry. Ruger's metallurgy and machining haven't been matched by the Italians. Overall reliability and average accuracy goes to Ruger - in the accuracy department, this is esp. true of the mid-frames from 2004 forward (New Vaquero and it's various cousins) and the large-frames from 2007 forward with the "underbarrel warning" instead of "side barrel". Ruger always had the edge in reliability and strongly took the lead in accuracy with the new, refined cylinder making process.

As a bonus, the Rugers are much easier for the owner to modify, both in terms of simplicity of disassembly plus the availability of alternate parts such as different hammers, grip frames, spring kits, drop-in hammer overtravel stops and much more. If you tinker with your guns, Ruger is by far no question the way to go.

[lawnboy]

Base on the excellent info from you all I think I'm shifting to wanting a Cimarron P. Which specific "P" i don't know yet. But I'm definitely in the "looks and feels like a real SAA" camp. Not looking for a working gun. Just looking for one to shoot for fun and handle obsessively.

[bdhuntr]

lawnboy, that was my exact thought. I wanted a revolver that was fun to shoot, looked fantastic, and had the same exact action as an original 1873 Colt SAA (without the Colt $$$).

I handled a few Vaqueros, and to me, they felt nowhere near as good "in the hand" as the Model P did.

To me, this is no hunting revolver. I want a revolver with good adjustable sights for that, and a stout frame and cylinder built to withstand heavy hunting loads. The Model P is strictly for shooting fun (although I would not want to be standing opposite the barrel of one for sure). I sit watching TV and cock it over and over, just listening to it spell C-O-L-T (how's that spelled in Italian?).

Both are fine wheelguns. But if you are looking for a more authentic piece, I think you are making a good choice. And I was going to get the 5-1/2" bbl, but decided at the gunshop to get the 4-3/4". I am very glad I did so. Much more nimble!

[dalegribble]

ruger makes fine guns. as for the cowboy type i would like a ruger 44mag set up for hunting. as for a real cowboy type i have the uberti/cimarron cattleman and thunderer in 45 lc because they are more authentic cowboy guns than the ruger. as for reliability and accuracy i don't believe the rugers offer any more than the uberti six guns. if i wanted a stronger or longer six gun for hunting i would choose a 44 mag blackhawk. for more fun and realism and fun shooting i am glad i have my ubertis/cimarron six guns, and they are very accurate.

one other thing. when ruger reduced the size of their western six guns to more closely match the old colt design i believe they also weakend the guns to the point they are not any stronger than the uberti or other brands that ruger competes with. the days of them being built like a tank went pretty much went away when they down sized thier guns. if you want a stronger ruger wester style i think you pretty much have to stick with the super blackhawk.

[Laz]

i believe they also weakend the guns to the point they are not any stronger than the uberti or other brands that ruger competes with

That may be true but the Rugers do have the advantage of coil springs versus leaf springs and many argue that Ruger's metallurgy is better. At any rate, in .357 the Vaqueros are strong enough for any factory load and then some (certainly stronger than any GP100 or 686) and in .45 they are strong enough for loads up to at least 21,000 psi and some argue to as much as 23,000 psi. Weak, they are not. How strong is necessary?

[Jim March]

There's two kinds of strength: "blowup resistance" and "long term action parts wear".

In the first category the NewVaq still holds a slight edge over the Italians but it's very slight.

In the second? No comparison whatsoever. In fact the mid-frames have the same action parts as the 44Magnum-class large-frames - same pawl, hammer , trigger, safety assembly and bolt. The NewVaq transfer bar IS slightly different...it's been beefed up.

[Crunchy Frog]

Get the one that speaks to you. You can hardly go wrong with either. I have Rugers and like them a lot but the "clones" are really fun to shoot.

[Buckeye!]

Vaquero

[Sarge]

I grew up shooting old-style single actions; they have a certain charm and panache that the more modern guns can't touch.

Still, I love my old Vaquero. I like being able to carry it loaded full-up and I like the option of heavy 45 Colt loads, when I need or want them. It does not handle like a SAA though. The New Vaquero resolves some of the handling issues, but in my mind it is neither fish nor fowl.

There really is nothing like a Colt.

[reggiec]

I'm surprised none of you have mentioned the Beretta Stampede, which to me is the best of both worlds; original SA feel, and the carry six safety .

[Sarge]

Reggie, I handled my first Stampede--a 4 3/4 standard model--three days ago. It literally felt like a Colt SAA in my hands and the transfer bar does not significantly affect normal SA operation. The blue.case colors were absolutely gorgeous.

[Zathras]

I bought a Cimmaron Model P 45LC 7 1/2 inch single action 2 years ago and I absolutely love it! ..I bought the old model with the black powder frame. It was slightly used, but still pretty mint..its a great shooter, and a well made piece.

[L_Killkenny]

I could care less about clicks and action. You guys that do still driving 1965 Fords as your daily drivers? Bettin not. Bet your driving newer, better trucks/cars. For my money I want the best SA I can afford and that's the Ruger.

[Bob Wright]

I'm a Ruger man from the git-go, having bought my first Ruger Blackhawk in 1956, and currently owning a dozen or more Blackhawks in .357, .44 Spl., .44 Mag, and .45 Colt. Taken a fair share of game animals with the .44s and .22s.

But, recently, I took a notion I wanted the old fashioned firing pin on the hammer, half cock to reload, case hardened frame single action revovler. So, I'm not going to be loading fire-breathin' hell-for-leather magnum ammunition, nor buffalo stompin' three quarter ounce lead .45 cartridges. Wanted something that threw a 240~250 gran bullet at a loafin' 1000 fps or less.

So, here's what I've come up with lately:



These are Ubertis, a .22, a .44 Special, and a .45 Colt Flat top. Suit me fine. Not going to forsake my Rugers, of course, just broadening my horizons.

Bob Wright

[Crazy88Fingers]

I could care less about clicks and action. You guys that do still driving 1965 Fords as your daily drivers? Bettin not. Bet your driving newer, better trucks/cars. For my money I want the best SA I can afford and that's the Ruger.

If I was looking for a car to take out on Sundays (which is what most of us use these guns for), a '65 Ford would be much higher on my list than anything being made today.

[Zathras]

I had a set of custom grips made..which with what they charged, made me learn how to make my own. This again, is a great shooter, and very well made..this Cimmaron is my keeper..

[Bob Wright]

And another thing: As to being able to do more to a Ruger than a Uberti, as far as alterations are concerned, this Colt is typical of what can be done with a Colt, Uberti or other simnilar Single Action:



This gun is a Colt, but could just as well been a Uberti. The backstrap is from a Colt 1851 Navy, the rear sight is Smith & Wesson N-Frame, the front sight is a Ruger Blackhawk. The one-piece grips I made myself.

In addition, the Uberti-made trigger guard and backstrap from an 1860 Army replica can be fitted fairly easily. And, anyone handy with metal working can use a Uberti made grip straps from a Bisley to make up a No. 5 Keith type design.

Bob Wright

[Bob Wright]

L_Killkenny wrote:

You guys that do still driving 1965 Fords as your daily drivers? Bettin not. Bet your driving newer, better trucks/cars.

A 1965 Ford is a forty seven year old auto. An Uberti is an 1873 design that was made in 2012.

Better? It still puts the bullet where I want it. Which, after all is said and done, is the bottom line.

Bob Wright

[Zathras]

Good point, Bob

[saitek]

i like my valquero it shhot great it is the older model with the larger grip .