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Old May 14, 2012, 10:04 AM   #1
CCCLVII
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Big game (Elk, Deer) with subsonic ammo?

I recently found out that hunting with a suppressor in Idaho is legal. I have booked a elk and deer hunt for the fall of 2013. I would like to use a suppressed weapon.

What I am looking for is advise on what round to use. While I know a 30-06 or a 338 work well on deer and elk, but load them at subsonic speeds I doubt they would have a lot of killing power. I am looking for a gun that will still have enough power to kill even at 1000-1050FPS. SO big bullets are a +

I am willing to buy a new gun and suppressor and tax stamp.

I am mostly doing this for a change of pace. I have hunted with rifles, hand guns, archery and black powder. I am just looking for some thing new.
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Old May 14, 2012, 10:10 AM   #2
RedBowTies88
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maybe .458 socom or .50 beo.


Why does it need to be subsonic? sure the high velocities will be louder but still quiet enough to not really need hearing protection. Even with a suppressed sub sonic load it will still be plenty loud to spook game.
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Old May 14, 2012, 10:29 AM   #3
CCCLVII
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Like i said this is not because its really practical, I just want a change of pace. I feel that learning the hold over for a big slow bullet would be more of a challenge.
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Old May 14, 2012, 10:36 AM   #4
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That's a cool idea. I wish suppressors were legal for hunting out this way. Do you reload? If so I'd buy something in .375 H&H or even like a .465, and power it down to where you want it.
That way, if you decide to go bear hunting (or if you want to explode some pumpkins), you can replace the suppressor with a muzzle break, and you'll be good to go.
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Old May 14, 2012, 10:42 AM   #5
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Quote:
I feel that learning the hold over for a big slow bullet would be more of a challenge.
sounds very much like a muzzle-loader, but with a cartridge to avoid the "mess".
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Old May 14, 2012, 10:49 AM   #6
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This is more of a stunt than anything else, IMO. A 500-gr bullet at 1,050 fps will have 1,230 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle. Depending on the BC, it will not have a whole lot more than 1,000 ft-lbs at 200 yds. Yes, it will kill an elk. And yes, you will have to learn to hold over. But you will not be shooting very far.
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Old May 14, 2012, 10:59 AM   #7
CCCLVII
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Yeah its more for fun. I figure it will be much like shooting sacred black (black powder) with less noise and cleaning. I dont think ill be shooting much more than 100 yards unless I find I am exceptionally good with hold over (doubtful).

Its just some thing different.
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Old May 14, 2012, 12:06 PM   #8
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I am working on a similar project. Mine is a 45/70 Marlin SBL. I have all ready threaded the barrel, payed for the suppressor and gotten finger prints and taken my Visa pictures. I am still weighting for AWC to finish building my suppressor so I can send the forms in to the sheriff and then to the feds.

I will not be shooting sub sonic ammo (except to play with). I just wanted to make my hunting rifle not damage my hearing any more than it already is. When I wear hearing protection I get a plugged up feeling in my head. While I can tolerate it for a range session. Hunting all day with it becomes unbearable.
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Old May 14, 2012, 12:14 PM   #9
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.50-110, if you can find one. You'd have to down load it a bit.
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Old May 14, 2012, 12:33 PM   #10
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There is the 510 Whisper.
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Old May 14, 2012, 02:32 PM   #11
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Buy a Sharps 45-70 and shoot it smokeless. Way more than enough power to kill anything in North America and a big slow bullet. I shoot mine (High Wall and Sharps) with 405 grain bullets at between 1250 and 1450 fps. Both guns will shoot MOA and are a LOT of fun to hunt with. I got into this a couple of years ago to do something different.
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Old May 14, 2012, 03:07 PM   #12
FrankenMauser
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Use the suppressor, but don't go subsonic. The reduction in decibel level will be more than enough.

However...
Unless you get cracking right now, you may not even get approval for the suppressor purchase, before the hunt comes around. There are always delays. The only real way to try to speed things up, is to buy a suppressor that is in stock at a local dealer, or that a local dealer can get their hands on very quickly.
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Old May 14, 2012, 03:19 PM   #13
Art Eatman
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Always keep in mind that the deal is "clean, ethical kill".

So you go out and Gee! The only game seen is at 300 yards or thereabouts. Sub-sonic does not strike me as a wise decision.

I was a bystander at Whittington as a guy was shooting a suppressed bolt-action .308. He was regularly clanging the steel targets to at least 400 yards as I watched. I was surprised at the amount of reduction in muzzle blast.

And remember, the higher the elevation, the slower the speed of sound. At 5,000 ft, sub-sonic is around 1,050 ft/sec.
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Old May 14, 2012, 04:16 PM   #14
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The problem with going 510 Whisper or similar solutions based on the 50 BMG round - while there are some hunting-legal hollow point bullets, most won't open up or fragment at the slow speeds you're aiming for. So even when you use the heavy rounds to get the energy you still get poor target ballistics.
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Old May 14, 2012, 04:30 PM   #15
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How bout getting an NEF single shot in 500 S&W or .45-70 and loading some thumpers for that? I had a load for my NEF, which I sold, that I used to shoot with good success. Granted, these were only 350 grain bullets, but they were going 1000 fps with 11 grains of unique. You could bump that up quite a bit if you wanted to a heavier bullet. With the 500 S&W, there would be the 440 grain hard cast lead. Then, you get the barrel threaded and a suppressor to match.
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Old May 14, 2012, 07:15 PM   #16
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Quote:
Always keep in mind that the deal is "clean, ethical kill".

So you go out and Gee! The only game seen is at 300 yards or thereabouts. Sub-sonic does not strike me as a wise decision.
The OP talked about hunting with archery and handguns as well as black powder. I don't passing up a shot is a huge deal.

I believe he was wanting to do it for more of a challenge. Shooting full bore ammo through a suppressor does not add any challenge.
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Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull.

all 25 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple
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Old May 14, 2012, 07:35 PM   #17
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Sorry, but to a suspicious cop type this sounds like a poaching setup to me...
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Old May 14, 2012, 08:56 PM   #18
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The military tried the .458x 2" a long time ago. It failed to meet expectations mostly because it only worked well at very short range. Even conservative hunting ranges require some significant holdover and energy levels are much too low to be viable on big game.
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Old May 14, 2012, 09:28 PM   #19
CCCLVII
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I have hunted Elk with a 44 magnum hand gun. I am sure the heavier bullet will be just fine. I have passed animals many times while hunting. My primary type of hunting is archery. I see no reason why it cant be done. I actually have long sense tired of hunting with a rifle on non-dangerous game. I believe variety is the spice of life. I think it will be very similar to shooting a muzzle loader in 45 caliber. A little slower bullet but the bullet will all so be heavier. Ill test it out to see how far I can keep the shots on a plate from a standing position.

Quote:
Sorry, but to a suspicious cop type this sounds like a poaching setup to me...
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ah yes. Just because I choose to hunt different (while still legal and 100% in my rights) I am sure I must be poaching. . I have also hunted in places where you most people hunt with a suppressor such as Norway. So obviously most people who hunt in Norway must be a poacher as well? Reminds me of a F&G officer that came unglued on me because I was hunting white tail deer with a 50BMG. He actually took my gun for about an hour while called around on the radio trying to find some thing to sight me for. In the end he had nothing and just looked like a jerk.

*edited to say I am leaning toward the 510 Whisper at this point but I still have time to look at others.

Last edited by CCCLVII; May 14, 2012 at 09:40 PM.
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Old May 14, 2012, 09:36 PM   #20
semi_problomatic
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The best way to go around subsonic velocities is to use super massive bullets.

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/large-ca...vychlop-e.html
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Old May 15, 2012, 12:14 AM   #21
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Problem with the whisper series those are proprietary cartridges made from really expensive brass. For your project I would look into a .50 Alaskan, nice round for regular hunting, and as a rimmed round you can shorten it to fit the larger bullets on it. Should sill have plenty of powder space to reach those 1200 ft/s you need.
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Old May 15, 2012, 09:25 AM   #22
CCCLVII
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Quote:
Problem with the whisper series those are proprietary cartridges made from really expensive brass. For your project I would look into a .50 Alaskan, nice round for regular hunting, and as a rimmed round you can shorten it to fit the larger bullets on it. Should sill have plenty of powder space to reach those 1200 ft/s you need.
That is a good idea but is there any way to put a 50 AK with a big (50BMG) bullet in a repeater or would I be limited to a single shot or a double rifle?
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Old May 15, 2012, 09:53 AM   #23
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At the risk of being a preachy wet blanket type, keep in mind that there are many, many things that can be done in life, but shouldn't be. Theoretical situations are instructional and interesting, but this is one of those ideas that would be best to leave on the napkin.
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Old May 15, 2012, 12:55 PM   #24
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To me it sounds like fun. As stated before I am working on a suppressed 45/70. I plan to use regular hunting loads in it.

I would suggest to the OP to try to hunt this year with the subsonic loads and see how it goes even though he probably will not have the suppressor yet, even if he put the paper work in today. If you can take game with this load with out a suppressor then adding the suppressor will not change any thing other than having to adjust the sights slightly.

Many people frown on suppressors for hunting but I think they are great. Just be prepaired to get stopped. I find many officers to not know much about civilian ownership of suppressors. This is second hand information but I believe it.

p.s. If hunting in Idaho make sure your gun is not heavy. If the gun is even 1 oz heavier than 16LBS you can not use it in Idaho for hunting and you may have to do more than just pay a fine, you could loose the gun and your hunting rights.
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Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull.

all 25 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple

Last edited by Deja vu; May 15, 2012 at 01:09 PM.
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Old May 15, 2012, 01:09 PM   #25
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you can get 50 Alaskan in a lever action...
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