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Old March 20, 2012, 11:59 PM   #51
rburch
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Hate to be rude but anyone advocating shooting without positively identifying their targets is dangerous and has no business handling firearms.

Preplanning is good, but unless you see the person for sure, you don't know if it's a criminal that broke into your house, or a family member that tripped over something on their way to get a drink of water.

As to the nature of the light I have an L shaped mini light it's a UTG brand not sure the model. It's my main flashlight, and I rather like it.

The wrist strap means I can still have the light with me, but have a hand free at the same time.

That said I feel a decent light on a rail isn't a bad idea to have too. As a backup, or if you off hand is busy but you need light to take the shot.

My current pistol a CZ PCR doesn't have a rail, but if I get a gun with a rail I might look into one.

Slightly off topic, my Mossberg 500 has a light mounted to it for defensive use.
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Last edited by rburch; March 21, 2012 at 01:14 PM.
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Old March 21, 2012, 06:04 AM   #52
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I think you meant withOUT positively IDing the target, but yeah. rule #3, know the target AND what's behind said target.

shooting at shapes or sounds is how accidents happen and anyone that does so should not own a firearm, or probably any weapon of any kind.
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Old March 21, 2012, 01:13 PM   #53
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Yeah i did mean that, my brain sometimes jumps ahead of my fingers.

Fixed it now.
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Old March 21, 2012, 01:17 PM   #54
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luckly my brain is just as slow as my fingers so I'm usually good to go.
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Old March 22, 2012, 01:06 PM   #55
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My choice

I like a maglite 4D - obviously not attached to my gun. The reason for that is that I believe it's more likely to be some dumb kid breaking in than a well armed/trained boogyman, and a scaring/clubbing may be closer to what they need than a shooting. I like my TV, but I'm not going to kill anyone for trying to take it. Life seldom resembles a John Wu movie.
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Old March 22, 2012, 01:15 PM   #56
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make sure he doesn't sue you for hitting him over the head while he was trying to steal your TV. haha.

personally, I'm not shooting them for taking something, I'm shooting them for being in my house uninvited. And I hope to make sure they don't do it a second time or to someone else. Because we know the legal system won't make sure of that.
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Old March 25, 2012, 03:35 PM   #57
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Agree with those who don't use a light mounted on their home defense handgun ... my nightstand 1911 has night sights, and right next to it is a Surefire 9p ... the tailcap lets me switch the light on and off quickly and keep the light outside the outline of my body ...

As for shooting a home invader, the only person other than me who has a key to my house is my wife, and the first thing I do if a sound disturbs my sleep is reach and make sure she's next to me in bed ... anybody else in the house, thanks to the Texas Castle Law, is there uninvited and is fair game ...
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Old March 26, 2012, 06:12 AM   #58
rha600
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Just curious, but how many people keep their house totally dark at night when they go to bed?

Those that need some kind of light, are you wanting the light in case someone were to cut the power or turn out lights or are you wanting it because you turn out all the lights before going to bed?

My house is set up with high ceilings. We keep the light in the, ummm, I think it's supposed to be a breakfast area on and with that on it lights up enough of the family room, kitchen, dining room and living room to see quite easily. the only dark areas where I'd need a flashlight would be down the hallway to the other three bedrooms.
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Old March 30, 2012, 04:08 PM   #59
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I have the Viridian C5L on both Sig's and I recommend them because they provide both a solid light and strobe capability in addition to the green laser. I can assure you the strobe is powerful enough to cause anyone in front of it to hesitate and wince when hit with it. The nice thing is the strobe also casts a wider solid ligght similar to the flashlight so you can see a wide area.
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Old March 31, 2012, 12:12 PM   #60
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try prevention first

I’ll start with this. Whatever firearm you choose, it won’t help you if an intruder can get into your home without you knowing it.

Being able to force a door or window because it isn’t secured properly will result in someone standing by your bed while you sleep. You can have a hand cannon with a mounted flood light in your nightstand, but if you are asleep, it won't help.

If your home is just off the street, make sure you don’t have shrubs etc blocking the street view of you windows or door. Often criminals will use those shrubs to hide while they work on breaking in, or lay in wait for you to come up to the door. Make sure your house number is highly visible from the street so emergency responders can easily find your home. If you have a back alley, number the house there too.

Place motion activated lights around the home. They have decorative fixtures with motion detector capability as well as spot lights for the back of the home. Yes a deer or raccoon will trip the lights, but so what, they only stay on for as long as you set them to stay on, and then go off until tripped again. When the exterior lights go off it illuminates the surrounding area of your home, and any intruders trying to enter. They are in the light, you are concealed in the dark.

We have a long driveway, so I went to Harbor Freight and bought two $20 motion sensors. They are battery operated and the detector is mounted to a post by the driveway, and one by the back of the house. One sounding device sits in the living room, the other by the back door. When someone enters the driveway, the alarm gives a ding dong sound. If they get near the house, the other sounds. Again deer and raccoons will set it off, but I don’t mind watching them too.

For the doors, have a locksmith key all the doors alike. Then unscrew the strike plate screws and make sure they are long enough to go into the 2X4 in the wall, not just the pine door frame. If there is glass surrounding the door, have double cylinder dead bolts installed, but keep an extra key hidden near the door in addition to your regular keys for fire safety and escape. Solid doors should have a 180  peep hole so you can see who is knocking before unlocking. With the screws going into the wall itself, not just the frame, if they kick the door in, you’ll hear them.

Windows need to have an additional locking system other than the butterfly lock. You should be able to secure the windows when they are closed and/or when they are partially open.

The inside should have lights on timers. There should be a good gun safe for guns and jewelry.

One other thing is to mark your property with your driver’s license. The state initials and the numbers will allow officials to find your name, age, address and so forth. If you can find stickers that indicate “Operation Identification” for your windows they help.

If you trust your neighbors, work with them. Be suspicious of traveling salesmen and so forth, and don’t hesitate to report suspicious activity.

When you call the police, remember, they don’t know what is going on until you tell them and they need the information in order. Your name, your location, phone number, why you are calling, what you think is going to happen. If it is happening right now, tell them “IN PROGRESS”. Be patient and stay on the phone until they tell you to hang up.

Make sure the family has a plan for fire and intrusion, and practice.

There is no one answer to crime, but using a combined package or system perspective where all the units work together can make the bad guys go somewhere easier.

Last but not least; I have an alarm system installed that not only monitors doors and motion, but a smoke detector. When we are not home, or the wife is home alone, it is comforting.
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Old April 1, 2012, 10:47 AM   #61
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As said earlier and I agree wholeheartedly... "there is no good way to go looking for someone".
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Old April 3, 2012, 09:34 PM   #62
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Guys, I keep a flashlight next to my nightstand gun. And it doesn't have to be expensive either. This is what I use: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00112HSE2/...ZK6ZAEH0XVECN&

Bright, handy, and very inexpensive. Had mine for about a year. 28 bucks for it at Meijer, as you can see even cheaper from Amazon. Never really wanted to attach one to my gun, as it's my EDC.
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Old April 26, 2012, 08:52 AM   #63
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I have read several threads on tactical flashlights, going back 6 years. Most people saw them as a normal light source, they are much more.

If a BG gets in my house, my 5 pound Yorkie will let me know. That will also let the BG know I'm home, and where I'm located.

I have no intention of going out to "clear" the house. I stay in the bedroom with my wife and dog. The BG can take anything he wants and leave. I will try to convince hi to leave: "I have a gun" "The police are on the way"

He is not an actual threat untill he tries to come in the bedroom. Texas Stand Your Ground says I can use deadly force to protect my property, but I have no property worth a human life.

I keep my gun and two flashlights handy. After getting the wife and dog safely in the bathroom, I get behind the bed with the gun and both flashlights. I have a cheap normal penlight to identify anyone coming in if I can't see good enough. The 500 lumen tactical light is actually part of my arsenal. I know from experience what it can do. It's like a professional strength flash bulb right in front of your face.

If it's strobed quickly in someones face (from the head of the bed, then I move to the foot of the bed), they will not instantly fire at it. The brain will require some time to process "What was that" "Where did that come from". It may only take a second, or it may take 3-5 seconds. That time is the advantage I want. Also, the BG is disoriented and confused.

A small possibility is the BG will become so confused he will bolt and run. So much the better.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying the tactical is a powerful weapon in itself. But it's a valuable addition to the tools I have available.
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Old April 26, 2012, 12:27 PM   #64
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I'll do my own searches if need be. I live out of town, if there is a Sheriff's Deputy close by then I figure at best the response time would be 30 minutes. If one isn't close by, then there is no telling how long it will take.

I'll do my own. It's not like I haven't done a building search. In my LE days I've done hundreds in not thousands, most alone. I've taught other cops building searches.

Don't agree, thats fine.

As to flash lights, no way in heck am I going to mount one on my pistol/revolver. Guess where your eye is if someone decides to take a pot shot at your light.

I carried a flash light, but always held it away from my body, I'd rather get my hand shot then my eyeball.

I also don't like super bright flash lights, I found they reflect off way too many objects screwing with your night vision. I like the standard old flashlights that you pay a couple bucks for at the box store. You don't need to read the newspaper with your light, you just have to see the bandit.

In fact in SE Asia I used the old L shaped light w/red lens (and mostly dieing batteries) searching little dark muddy tunnels. I saw all I needed to see.

This brings up something else I have mentioned more then once. LEARN TO SHOOT WITH ONE HAND. Extend your flashlight with one hand, and shoot with one hand. Learn to shoot one handed with either hand. If your right handed and peek around a corner on your left side, you're going to expose more of your body if you want to use your right hand. Same with the right side if you're left handed.

Simple enough to check. Get your partner to stand in front of a barricade. Get down on the right side of the barricade and point your finger. Try it with both hands, try it with two hands. Ask you partner which method exposed the most part of your body.

Use mirrors to peek around corners. Go low. Don't stand up and peek, get down. People (bandits included) expect people to stand up and peek around corners or doors, and are looking at head level. Get as low as you can, its not expected.

I know many, if not most will agree with me, but this is based on my experience and my set up.
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Old April 26, 2012, 01:06 PM   #65
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Interesting Observation

I had an opportunity to attend lectures and practice drills with our city's LEOs recently and one observation was that all the patrol officers did not have lights/lasers mounted to their pistols.

Whereas every one of the Special Operations officers (drugs/gangs unit) had at least a light if not a combo on theirs. Oh, they also carry flashlights, too. The thing is, a weapon mounted light is a tool. Who says that you can't have both and use both? It all depends on the situation. Why limit yourself?
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Old April 26, 2012, 01:10 PM   #66
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Quote:
LEARN TO SHOOT WITH ONE HAND.
Amen
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Old April 26, 2012, 01:34 PM   #67
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There are both good and bad points to using a weapon mounted light. The only problem with a handheld light is your ability to shoot one handed. If given only one choice between either a WML or a handheld I would choose the handheld. You always need a handheld light IMO.

If you do have a WML you need to practice with it. Don't just assume that it is going to work for you. Through practice I've found that I have an issue operating the momentary switch on my X300 while firing. The heavy recoil of my 45 causes my thumb to come out of contact with the switch when firing. Not a good thing while trying to keep a threat illuminated during an engagement. While the x300 is a wonderful light, I've found that it does not work for me.
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Old April 26, 2012, 02:46 PM   #68
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My $.02

I have the option of using a handgun tactical light at work, and I work nights, but I choose not to have one mounted. I considered it, and find it comes down to personal preference, depending on whether one prefers a "defensive" or "offensive" handgun.

It's kind of an extension of the point-shooting/aimed-shooting debate.

I remember some years ago reading about the approval of the H&K as the SOCOM "offensive" handgun: A primary weapon in a particular tactical environment. Enhanced sights and weapon lights seem to suit this application.

I think the main threat in my environment is more likely to come from a very quick, very close point-shooting "defensive" scenario, and I think a light on the handgun just makes it slower.

Most of the other points seem to cancel each other out. One only activates the weapon light (presumably) when seeking to illuminate an actual target, and turns it off immediately after engaging (then moving, if possible).

Our training and policy have us activating the light only with the non-firing hand, so I don't gain a free hand. I still need to have the hand-held light out because chances are I will need to use it for searching, etc., that I cannot do with the weapon light.

On the plus side, your chance of identifying a target and getting an accurate shot off in the dark are vastly increased, and if you fumble your flashlight, you can still illuminate the target.

The dilemma is similar to the situation with night sights: They really do make it easier to shoot accurately at night, but are they more suited to the range than real life? Much depends on the scenario.

For a dedicated home-defense weapon, I suppose I would consider one, but for a carry weapon, I will probably stick with my decision to keep it simple.

However, I think a tac-light is desirable on a long gun.

There you go, clear as mud...whatever. Just make your choice and train with it.

Last edited by R1145; April 26, 2012 at 02:54 PM.
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Old April 26, 2012, 02:59 PM   #69
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He is not an actual threat untill he tries to come in the bedroom. Texas Stand Your Ground says I can use deadly force to protect my property, but I have no property worth a human life.
Don't be so naive. If he is inside your house, he is a threat. An inch of dry wall isn't much protection, except maybe against a yorkie.

You might want to recheck your laws. Texas stand your ground law does not say this. That part of the law has been in place long before 2007.

Property isn't worth a human life? Try explaining that to the criminals who are willing to kill you for your property and who are willing to die while trying to take your property.
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Old April 27, 2012, 01:56 PM   #70
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My home defense situation is different than most. My problem is varmints such as wild dogs, coyotes and the occasional mountain lion messing with my horses or goats. The signal is that my dogs raise heck and hit the door. If that occurs I know to bring a rifle and flashlight.

I will be adding a flashlight to my AR which is my primary outside response weapon.
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Old April 28, 2012, 12:35 AM   #71
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Um, no!

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just double tap them in the dark and ask questions later?
Have you heard what happens when we assume? It sounds too much like you're assuming that someone needs to be shot at. Always be certain that you need to shoot. After you are absolutley certain, make certain again. Might sound a bit insane, but I think I may almost need to hear a shot fired before I pull my trigger. Regret is one thing I don't want to regret.
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Old April 28, 2012, 12:55 AM   #72
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anybody else in the house, thanks to the Texas Castle Law, is there uninvited and is fair game
Is there absolutely no possible way, none whatsoever, that someone could be in your house for some other reason than to rob or kill you? How about, a neighbor, so disoriented by diabetes, or some other reason, that they unlocked your door with their own key (has happened), and they thought they were in their own home. Stranger things have happened. We all know this is true. Pulling the trigger is always the absolute last possible option, and even then, away from the target with the first shot is a really good idea. The sound alone could scare a genuine crook away, or at least make the disoriented, possibly innocent stranger very quickly make themselves known before it's too late. A neighbor is a terrible thing to waste.
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Old May 3, 2012, 03:28 PM   #73
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All it took was one training session to learn that you cannot do a quick mag change with a flashlight in your left hand. As some posters said, the new lights today light up my whole living area by pointing it to the ground or ceiling. I do not have to point my gun at anyone. I have no kids so if someone is in my home they do not belong there. I also have tactical handheld lights with clips to attach to my waist.

I advise all of you that use handheld flashlights to walk through what you will do even if just to round up the family. You will find it hard to turn door knobs, hold your child's hand, turn on lights and do the many other things you will need a free hand to do. Then after all that imagaine your gun jams and do the drills you practiced to unjam it with a flash light in your hand. Of course you can waste a lot of precious time tucking that flashlight under your arm but seconds count.

I was adverse to gun mounted lights because they altered the balance point of my gun but after taking a night course I learned that you really need one hand free to do a lot of things.

P.S. I quickly learned in Vietnam, where the enemy dressed like the civilians, that you lived much longer if you did not debate whether that guy in the pajamas heading for you with his hands hidden was just a civilian that was ashamed of showing his hands or a VC. Many a civilian has had his gun taken from him and used against him becaues when the moment of truth occurs he cannot pull the trigger. He will consider all sorts of things like maybe it is my neigbor with the same key, or maybe he will just leave if I threaten to shoot or many other things. However, by the time he is absolutely certain that it is not some kid he did not know he had, coming to see his biological dad at 3am, the BG will be on him taking his gun away or plunging a knife into him. Had most of my LEO family and friends tell me that many a time a civilian was killed with his own gun by the person he was trying to stop because he could not pull the trigger. Humans are programmed not to kill each other. The military has to train you to act differently and even then I saw many a new recruit freeze up and not fire back when fired upon. So I am not going to spend much time deciding whether to shoot or not. If the person is acting like a threat he will be treated as one. This is the same thing LEO do. You cannot act like a pyschologist becasue you just do not have the time or training.

Last edited by GunByte; May 3, 2012 at 04:08 PM.
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Old May 3, 2012, 04:22 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunByte View Post
All it took was one training session to learn that you cannot do a quick mag change with a flashlight in your left hand. ...

I advise all of you that use handheld flashlights to walk through what you will do even if just to round up the family. You will find it hard to turn door knobs, hold your child's hand, turn on lights and do the many other things you will need a free hand to do....imagaine your gun jams and do the drills you practiced to unjam it with a flash light in your hand. Of course you can waste a lot of precious time tucking that flashlight under your arm ...

... learned that you really need one hand free to do a lot of things.....
Which is why at Gunsite we train using a lanyard on the flashlight and around our wrist.
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Old May 4, 2012, 04:18 PM   #75
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I'll be a dummy and post a couple of my flashlights. The reason I say dummy, is that for some reason a certain segment sees flashlights as some unnecessary piece of 'tacticool' equipment. The reasons why they do elude me, or their logic, or rather lack of logic behind their reasoning, I should say.

I use a handheld, but think weapon mounted is probably the best way to go. If you can't light up a room, or outdoor area with a weapon mounted light, without covering someone, or something with the muzzle, you are inept. Just hold it at low ready, no need to sweep it around like a search light. You will be able to see just fine.




Pistol is a Kahr PM9, top knife is an Ontario Rat 1, next is a 4Sevens Quark AA2 Tactical, then my twenty year old Cold Steel Ultra-Lock, last a Fenix LD20.

The Quark has a moonlight(0.2 Lumens), low(4 Lumens), medium(22 Lumens), high (85 Lumens), Max (205 Lumens). It also has strobe, beacon and SOS. It will run 30 days on moonlight and 1.3 hours on Max. I use rechargeable AA Eneloop batteries that have 1500 charge cycles and hold up to 75% of full charge for 3 years. I charge them on average every six weeks with normal use.

As you can see, you can easily use Kraig's technique of a lower lumens, stealthier light and still deliver 205 eye searing, room illuminating lumens if you want/need too.

Having a practical/tactical flashlight as part of your EDC and knowing how best to employ it, is the only way to go, IMHO.
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