The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old March 14, 2012, 09:41 AM   #1
JJW
Member
 
Join Date: March 3, 2012
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 59
12 ga. vs. .22 for home defense.

After reading the thread ( 12 ga. vs. 357 ) in this forum, I thought it might be of interest. It was sent by the Buckeye Firearms Assoc. on Twitter. It speaks volumes for placement vs. size.

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/8256

I hope I have done this in keeping with the new policy.
__________________
"The philosophy of gun control: Teenagers are roaring through town at 90MPH, where the speed limit is 25. Your solution is to lower the speed limit to 20."
- Sam Cohen (inventor of the neutron bomb)
JJW is offline  
Old March 14, 2012, 10:12 AM   #2
tim s
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 8, 2011
Posts: 223
It also makes one ponder the question of "luck vs intelligence" if anybody thinks a .22 is a wise HD choice.
tim s is offline  
Old March 14, 2012, 10:27 AM   #3
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by tim s
It also makes one ponder the question of "luck vs intelligence" if anybody thinks a .22 is a wise HD choice.
I agree. It looks like the intruder decided not to fight. Instead, he chose to run and was found some distance away. If he had wanted, he probably would have been quite capable of continuing the fight.
Frank Ettin is offline  
Old March 14, 2012, 10:34 AM   #4
JJW
Member
 
Join Date: March 3, 2012
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 59
My apology, I was NOT supporting a .22 as a good HD weapon, especially a single shot rifle. I think the most important thing here is; Don't give up and use what ever is available. I'd bet that his opinion of CC will change.
__________________
"The philosophy of gun control: Teenagers are roaring through town at 90MPH, where the speed limit is 25. Your solution is to lower the speed limit to 20."
- Sam Cohen (inventor of the neutron bomb)
JJW is offline  
Old March 14, 2012, 10:42 AM   #5
Venom1956
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2008
Location: WI
Posts: 3,026
I agree with fiddle. 22 for HD/SD is foolish and risky. Do an enemy no minor harm. Certainly a .22 can be a lethal round I do not argue that, but the .38 spl or 9mm even .380 are much better 'minimum' calibers for defense. Any of THESE or larger pistol rounds out of a carbine makes recoil a non issue.* They have very nice HP ammo on the market today.


The hardest part of using any rimfire ammo for defensive purposes is the fickleness of primers compared to centerfire, Last thing you need is a dud .22 when your or someone elses life hangs in the balance... I've had only 2 bad centerfire primers in all my shooting days, one ignited after a second try. I probably have a small pile of .22 ammo that's failed to go off.

* comparing a 9mm vs .22 fired from a rifle.
__________________
E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.- Yeah I can do that.
I guarantee you will know it if a bicyclist hits your house going 1000 mph.
Venom1956 is offline  
Old March 14, 2012, 04:03 PM   #6
C0untZer0
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 21, 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,555
The way the story puts it the home owner was cooperating and going down the stairs as asked when the assailant shot him.

Never assume that if you cooperate with criminals that they aren't going to kill you.
C0untZer0 is offline  
Old March 16, 2012, 08:03 PM   #7
Glockstar .40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2012
Location: West of the Rockies
Posts: 375
hopefully i never have to use it but i think ima stick with my 00buck. if the 1st shot doesnt stop someone i got 7 more for em.
Glockstar .40 is offline  
Old March 16, 2012, 08:18 PM   #8
GroovyMike
Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2006
Posts: 55
I once met a man who was shot 6 times at point blank range with a 22 revolver in the abdomen (bar fight). He took the empty pistol away from the shooter and beat him unconscious with it. Then he drove himself to the hospital and lived many more years walking and talking normally with no evidence of the shooting unless he had his shirt off.

I met another man who had been shot just once with a 12 guage load of birdshot. He was found left for dead but with a long hospital stay survived missing his front teeth, his nose, and both eyes for the rest of his years.

Draw your own conclusions.
GroovyMike is offline  
Old March 16, 2012, 08:44 PM   #9
Oysterboy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 3, 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 397
I would rather have a 22 semi-auto rifle instead of a single shot and shoot for the head. The 22 rifle is very accurate so a head shot shouldn't be hard.
Oysterboy is offline  
Old March 16, 2012, 08:49 PM   #10
aparootsa
Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2009
Posts: 72
My wife can't handle my .357 SIG, so the P22 is her go-to gun for HD. I'm confident that she'd be able to snap off all 10 rounds in short time if needed to defend our child (or me, but definitely for the kid) and that afterwards she'd be fine kicking the snot out of the intruder.

That said, I prefer the SIG, 'cause... well... all other things being equal, a lot of lead will do more damage than a little. It's more of a 5-year project to get her to that point, but hey... 5 years ago she had never shot a gun, and now she's ok with one ready for use in the home, so that's progress.
aparootsa is offline  
Old March 17, 2012, 06:57 PM   #11
1-UP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2008
Location: Southern MI
Posts: 250
"I would rather have a 22 semi-auto rifle instead of a single shot and shoot for the head. The 22 rifle is very accurate so a head shot shouldn't be hard."

I don't know - a 6" moving target with a very short time window to fire...seems pretty hard to me...
1-UP is offline  
Old March 17, 2012, 07:04 PM   #12
Hansam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 21, 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 763
I personally wouldn't be taking any head shots in a SD/HD situation except in the situation of "2 to the chest then 1 to the head."

That aside I'd definitely prefer to be shooting the 12ga. than the .22LR. A 12ga loaded with a 2 3/4" #4 shell would be sufficient for taking care of most any two legged varmint that makes their unwanted way into my home. A .22LR may or may not get the job done and for that matter may just end up angering said varmint.

If all you have is a .22lr or all your wife will use is a .22lr then by all means use it. Otherwise its wiser to go with a larger caliber firearm for HD.
__________________
This is who we are, what we do.
Hansam is offline  
Old March 17, 2012, 07:40 PM   #13
CMichael
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 1,516
The .22 didn't stop the assailant. After being shot he fled.
__________________
"When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk" - Tuco, The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
CMichael is offline  
Old March 19, 2012, 11:05 AM   #14
L_Killkenny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,676
A vast majority of BG's don't like being shot at let alone shot with any gun and will run, fall down and cry, etc. Thus the threat is ended. Now I'd be a fool to say a 12ga isn't a better man stopper than a .22lr but to say that a person who chooses a .22lr for SD/HD is only gonna live if he's lucky is a complete falsehood. As a matter of fact you'd have to be damn unlucky or pretty well inept to have your choice of cartridge make wholesale difference. Platform, shot placement, skill, etc being equal of coarse.

LK

Last edited by L_Killkenny; March 19, 2012 at 11:17 AM.
L_Killkenny is offline  
Old March 20, 2012, 08:18 AM   #15
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 7,894
I'll take just about anything over a .22 for home defense. (.25 is the only exception.)
Skans is offline  
Old March 20, 2012, 08:37 AM   #16
JJW
Member
 
Join Date: March 3, 2012
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 59
Although we are lacking all the facts, it appears as if the .22 rifle was all that he had available. If that is the case, it was a better choice than the alternative, which was nothing.
__________________
"The philosophy of gun control: Teenagers are roaring through town at 90MPH, where the speed limit is 25. Your solution is to lower the speed limit to 20."
- Sam Cohen (inventor of the neutron bomb)
JJW is offline  
Old March 20, 2012, 03:51 PM   #17
markj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 27, 2005
Location: Crescent Iowa
Posts: 2,968
Quote:
Although we are lacking all the facts, it appears as if the .22 rifle was all that he had available. If that is the case, it was a better choice than the alternative, which was nothing.
+1

My cousin was shot 4 times in the abdomen with a 357, just talked to him the other day... guy shot him is in prison for 100 years.
markj is offline  
Old March 21, 2012, 01:20 AM   #18
Bamashooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 12, 2010
Posts: 1,709
I would have no problem using a .22lr if that was all I had. Plenty of people have been killed with one shot from a .22lr.
Bamashooter is offline  
Old March 21, 2012, 12:53 PM   #19
Stevie-Ray
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: The shores of Lake Huron
Posts: 4,532
Quote:
I'll take just about anything over a .22 for home defense. (.25 is the only exception.)
This in spades. Was a time when a .22 was all I had, and I used it for that. Times changed for me as I got older.

Use what you have, but strive to have what you need.
__________________
Stevie-Ray
Join the NRA/ILA
I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.
Stevie-Ray is offline  
Old March 21, 2012, 04:14 PM   #20
gvw3
Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2012
Location: Chicago Area IL
Posts: 72
Something wrong here.

Although authorities did not release what type of weapons were used in the shootings, a former student of mine who is related to the victims in this case informed me that the attacker had a shotgun loaded with deer slugs, and the defender was able to return fire and stop the attack with a .22 single shot rifle.


This vic was shot in the back with a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with deer slugs. I find this hard to believe he could return fire after that. The part about the bad guy getting shot with 1 .22 round and running off I can believe.

I have a ruger 10/22 with several 25 round clips that I would not hesitate to use for home defense. It wouldn't be my 1st chose but it would do the job.
__________________
Criminals promote gun control. It make the rest of us easy prey.
gvw3 is offline  
Old March 22, 2012, 12:49 PM   #21
dayman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2011
Location: The Woods
Posts: 1,101
Quote:
I once met a man who was shot 6 times at point blank range with a 22 revolver in the abdomen (bar fight). He took the empty pistol away from the shooter and beat him unconscious with it. Then he drove himself to the hospital and lived many more years walking and talking normally with no evidence of the shooting unless he had his shirt off.

I met another man who had been shot just once with a 12 guage load of birdshot. He was found left for dead but with a long hospital stay survived missing his front teeth, his nose, and both eyes for the rest of his years.

Draw your own conclusions.
The conclusion I draw is that I'd rather be shot in the belly than the head. Of course, the caliber choice doesn't really effect that particular preference
dayman is offline  
Old March 22, 2012, 09:18 PM   #22
Tokarev Czar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 2012
Posts: 11
12 gauge and a game dog

I felt safest with my Lab/pit mix at the foot of my bed and my Remington 870 equipped with a light. Left the sliding door unlocked and open, never felt safer. Although a .22 is definitely better than nothing.
Tokarev Czar is offline  
Old March 23, 2012, 05:20 AM   #23
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague County, Texas
Posts: 10,459
Quote:
I would rather have a 22 semi-auto rifle instead of a single shot and shoot for the head. The 22 rifle is very accurate so a head shot shouldn't be hard.
.22s are not particularly any more accurate than other calibers and differences in accuracy most guns at self defense distances is fairly inconsequential.

As for making those easy headshots, ever notice how professionals sometimes have trouble with live targets? Maybe the shot should not be hard, but apparently turns out to be.


Quote:
I would have no problem using a .22lr if that was all I had. Plenty of people have been killed with one shot from a .22lr.
Being killed is not the same as being stopped. Even more people die of cancer every day, but I would not want to count on cancer as being a timely way to take out an attacker.

Quote:
Although we are lacking all the facts, it appears as if the .22 rifle was all that he had available. If that is the case, it was a better choice than the alternative, which was nothing.
So what you are saying is that the victim was ordered down stairs where he was shot in the back with a 12 ga deer slug and the only thing in the down stairs apparently was a .22 rifle? Apparently left alone, I am fairly certain that the victim had numerous alternatives other than a .22 rifle. The fact that so many folks don't understand the alternatives available to them doesn't mean that they don't exist.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher."
-- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old March 23, 2012, 01:02 PM   #24
markj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 27, 2005
Location: Crescent Iowa
Posts: 2,968
Quote:
I am fairly certain that the victim had numerous alternatives other than a .22 rifle
And you know this how?? In my barn is a 22 semi and only that. Now if Iwasnt carrying and some idiot came at me in there, well that would be what I would use. It is very accurate too.

Last edited by Frank Ettin; March 23, 2012 at 01:36 PM. Reason: clean up insulting language
markj is offline  
Old March 23, 2012, 01:16 PM   #25
raceroch
Member
 
Join Date: October 5, 2011
Location: RI
Posts: 51
Quote:
I've had only 2 bad centerfire primers in all my shooting days, one ignited after a second try.
Venom195?

Not sure what centerfire you shoot, but on a weekend of shooting i do have a handful of .22 duds, but also have a centerfire primer that doesnt go off. hard to believe that if you shoot a lot (assuming you do if you are on this forum) you dont see more than two in a lifetime, so far.
raceroch is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12720 seconds with 7 queries