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Old March 8, 2012, 05:40 PM   #1
markj
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Is this scenario a straw man?

We have a joint account, I go to a gun show after taking out some cash, buy a gun, give it to my wife. She contribures to the account as I do. She has no permit to purchase, I have a carry permit so I can buy here. or do I need to use my own money exclusivly on any gun purchase?
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Old March 8, 2012, 06:28 PM   #2
twobit
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My vote is NO it is not a straw purchase. Do you have to have a state permit to possess / own a gun in Iowa?
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Old March 8, 2012, 07:12 PM   #3
Scimmia
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Quote:
Do you have to have a state permit to possess / own a gun in Iowa?
No, but you do have to have a permit to "acquire" handguns. There is an exception for family members, so this scenerio doesn't run afoul of that law.

As for a straw purchase under federal law, I have no idea if this would count.
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Old March 8, 2012, 07:40 PM   #4
Pahoo
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Thank God we don't live in Illinois.

Quote:
No, but you do have to have a permit to "acquire" handguns.
No is correct on needing a permit but you don't have to have a "Permit to Purchase". it's just that this yearly permit, save you a lot of hassle. This is your background check. If you don't have this permit, the dealer will just phone it in and if you are okay, you get the gun. ....

Quote:
or do I need to use my own money exclusivly on any gun purchase?
No sir !! ...

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Old March 8, 2012, 08:17 PM   #5
Scimmia
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Quote:
No is correct on needing a permit but you don't have to have a "Permit to Purchase". it's just that this yearly permit, save you a lot of hassle. This is your background check. If you don't have this permit, the dealer will just phone it in and if you are okay, you get the gun. ....
True for long guns, not true for handguns. Under Iowa law you must have a permit to purchase/acquire handguns.

Quote:
724.15 Annual permit to acquire pistols or revolvers.
1. Any person who desires to acquire ownership of any pistol or revolver shall first obtain an annual permit. An annual permit shall be issued upon request to any resident of this state unless the person is subject to any of the following:
a. Is less than twenty-one years of age.
b. Is subject to the provisions of section 724.26.
c. Is prohibited by federal law from shipping, transporting, possessing, or receiving a firearm.
2. Any person who acquires ownership of a pistol or revolver shall not be required to obtain an annual permit if any of the following apply:
a. The person transferring the pistol or revolver and the person acquiring the pistol or revolver are licensed firearms dealers under federal law.
b. The pistol or revolver acquired is an antique firearm, a collector’s item, a device which is not designed or redesigned for use as a weapon, a device which is designed solely for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line-throwing, safety, or similar device, or a firearm which is unserviceable by reason of being unable to discharge a shot by means of an explosive and is incapable of being readily restored to a firing condition.
c. The person acquiring the pistol or revolver is authorized to do so on behalf of a law enforcement agency.
d. The person has obtained a valid permit to carry weapons, as provided in section 724.11.
e. The person transferring the pistol or revolver and the person acquiring the pistol or revolver are related to one another within the second degree of consanguinity or affinity unless the person transferring the pistol or revolver knows that the person acquiring the pistol or revolver would be disqualified from obtaining a permit.
3. The annual permit to acquire pistols or revolvers shall authorize the permit holder to acquire one or more pistols or revolvers during the period that the permit remains valid. If the issuing officer determines that the applicant has become disqualified under the provisions of subsection 1, the issuing officer may immediately revoke the permit and shall provide a written statement of the reasons for revocation, and the applicant shall have the right to appeal the revocation as provided in section 724.21A.
4. An issuing officer who finds that a person issued a permit to acquire pistols or revolvers under this chapter has been arrested for a disqualifying offense or who is the subject of proceedings that could lead to the person’s ineligibility for such permit may immediately suspend such permit. An issuing officer proceeding under this subsection shall immediately notify the permit holder of the suspension by personal service or certified mail on a form prescribed and published by the commissioner of public safety and the suspension shall become effective upon the permit holder’s receipt of such notice. If the suspension is based on an arrest or a proceeding that does not result in a disqualifying conviction or finding against the permit holder, the issuing officer shall immediately reinstate the permit upon receipt of proof of the matter’s final disposition. If the arrest leads to a disqualifying conviction or the proceedings to a disqualifying finding, the issuing officer shall revoke the permit. The issuing officer may also revoke the permit of a person whom the issuing officer later finds was not qualified for such a permit at the time of issuance or who the officer finds provided materially false information on the permit application. A person aggrieved by a suspension or revocation under this subsection may seek review of the decision pursuant to section 724.21A.

724.16 Annual permit to acquire required — transfer prohibited.
1. Except as otherwise provided in section 724.15, subsection 2, a person who acquires ownership of a pistol or revolver without a valid annual permit to acquire pistols or revolvers or a person who transfers ownership of a pistol or revolver to a person who does not have in the person’s possession a valid annual permit to acquire pistols or revolvers is guilty of an aggravated misdemeanor.
2. A person who transfers ownership of a pistol or revolver to a person that the transferor knows is prohibited by section 724.15 from acquiring ownership of a pistol or revolver commits a class “D” felony.

Last edited by Scimmia; March 8, 2012 at 08:35 PM.
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Old March 8, 2012, 11:56 PM   #6
Sefner
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I'm voting no on the straw man. The question is whether or not the money in that joint account is your money. I see no reason as to why it's not.

I can't comment on Iowa law.
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Old March 9, 2012, 12:11 AM   #7
hermannr
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First, OP, you did nothing wrong.

Secondly, I get major heartburn at even the idea of a "permit" to purchase.

Great state law there: Everyone is guilty of some unknown felony, or you are mental, until proven innocent.

That si what they are telling you with requiring a "permit" to purchase...think about it.
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Old March 9, 2012, 12:51 AM   #8
vranasaurus
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Scimmia,

Your statement is technicaly correct but the OPs situation has an exception under 724.15(2)(e).

If the individuals are related within the second degree of consanguinity or affinity then no permit is required to transfer. This includes spouses, parents, siblings, children, uncles, aunts, uncles, grandparents, and first cousins.

Since this was between spouses it is not a violation of Iowa Law. It appears he bought to gun as a gift for his wife and as such it is not a straw purchase under
federal law.

Quote:
724.15 Annual permit to acquire pistols or revolvers.
1. Any person who desires to acquire ownership of any pistol or revolver shall first obtain an annual permit. An annual permit shall be issued upon request to any resident of this state unless the person is subject to any of the following:
a. Is less than twenty-one years of age.
b. Is subject to the provisions of section 724.26.
c. Is prohibited by federal law from shipping, transporting, possessing, or receiving a firearm.
2. Any person who acquires ownership of a pistol or revolver shall not be required to obtain an annual permit if any of the following apply:
a. The person transferring the pistol or revolver and the person acquiring the pistol or revolver are licensed firearms dealers under federal law.
b. The pistol or revolver acquired is an antique firearm, a collector’s item, a device which is not designed or redesigned for use as a weapon, a device which is designed solely for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line-throwing, safety, or similar device, or a firearm which is unserviceable by reason of being unable to discharge a shot by means of an explosive and is incapable of being readily restored to a firing condition.
c. The person acquiring the pistol or revolver is authorized to do so on behalf of a law enforcement agency.
d. The person has obtained a valid permit to carry weapons, as provided in section 724.11.
e. The person transferring the pistol or revolver and the person acquiring the pistol or revolver are related to one another within the second degree of consanguinity or affinity unless the person transferring the pistol or revolver knows that the person acquiring the pistol or revolver would be disqualified from obtaining a permit.
3. The annual permit to acquire pistols or revolvers shall authorize the permit holder to acquire one or more pistols or revolvers during the period that the permit remains valid. If the issuing officer determines that the applicant has become disqualified under the provisions of subsection 1, the issuing officer may immediately revoke the permit and shall provide a written statement of the reasons for revocation, and the applicant shall have the right to appeal the revocation as provided in section 724.21A.
4. An issuing officer who finds that a person issued a permit to acquire pistols or revolvers under this chapter has been arrested for a disqualifying offense or who is the subject of proceedings that could lead to the person’s ineligibility for such permit may immediately suspend such permit. An issuing officer proceeding under this subsection shall immediately notify the permit holder of the suspension by personal service or certified mail on a form prescribed and published by the commissioner of public safety and the suspension shall become effective upon the permit holder’s receipt of such notice. If the suspension is based on an arrest or a proceeding that does not result in a disqualifying conviction or finding against the permit holder, the issuing officer shall immediately reinstate the permit upon receipt of proof of the matter’s final disposition. If the arrest leads to a disqualifying conviction or the proceedings to a disqualifying finding, the issuing officer shall revoke the permit. The issuing officer may also revoke the permit of a person whom the issuing officer later finds was not qualified for such a permit at the time of issuance or who the officer finds provided materially false information on the permit application. A person aggrieved by a suspension or revocation under this subsection may seek review of the decision pursuant to section 724.21A.

724.16 Annual permit to acquire required — transfer prohibited.
1. Except as otherwise provided in section 724.15, subsection 2, a person who acquires ownership of a pistol or revolver without a valid annual permit to acquire pistols or revolvers or a person who transfers ownership of a pistol or revolver to a person who does not have in the person’s possession a valid annual permit to acquire pistols or revolvers is guilty of an aggravated misdemeanor.
2. A person who transfers ownership of a pistol or revolver to a person that the transferor knows is prohibited by section 724.15 from acquiring ownership of a pistol or revolver commits a class “D” felony.
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Old March 9, 2012, 08:21 AM   #9
Scimmia
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Quote:
Your statement is technicaly correct but the OPs situation has an exception under 724.15(2)(e).

If the individuals are related within the second degree of consanguinity or affinity then no permit is required to transfer. This includes spouses, parents, siblings, children, uncles, aunts, uncles, grandparents, and first cousins.

Since this was between spouses it is not a violation of Iowa Law.
Correct, as I stated in post #3. Pahoo disagreed that a permit was ever required, which is why I posted the wording of the law.
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Old March 9, 2012, 05:38 PM   #10
markj
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Quote:
First, OP, you did nothing wrong.
Havent done it yet, gun show is tomorrow. thanks
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Old March 9, 2012, 08:36 PM   #11
Pahoo
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Permit Required for handguns !!!

Quote:
No is correct on needing a permit but you don't have to have a "Permit to Purchase". it's just that this yearly permit, save you a lot of hassle.
I stand corrected or as the progressives would say, I need to re-calibrate my words. You don't need a purchasing permit to buy a long gun but you do need a permit to buy a handgun. At any rate, what the OP posted, is within the law. Could only assume what the OP was buying and if it was a handgun, he did have the required permit. .....


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Old March 12, 2012, 02:00 PM   #12
johnwilliamson062
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I you get a divorce who owns the guns you acquire while married?
You didn't transfer anything to your wife. She already owned half.
At least how I see it.
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Old March 13, 2012, 07:08 AM   #13
Don P
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No question is silly so I'll ask this along the line of the OP.
Joint account and "you" take money from the account and go buy a bag of weed. Is the wife also on the hook ( liable to arrest) if caught with you being the money came from a joint account?
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Old March 13, 2012, 10:41 AM   #14
Sefner
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Quote:
Joint account and "you" take money from the account and go buy a bag of weed. Is the wife also on the hook ( liable to arrest) if caught with you being the money came from a joint account?
Heh. Weed. Joint account. Good work, sir.

It's not a straw purchase. The question is whether or not you are the actual buyer of the firearm, and OP is using funds that are his to buy the firearm. I'm sure this happens all the time.
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Old March 14, 2012, 04:46 PM   #15
markj
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Quote:
Joint account and "you" take money from the account and go buy a bag of weed. Is the wife also on the hook ( liable to arrest) if caught with you being the money came from a joint account?
Ha ha, in Iowa third time caught is a felony so I sure wont be buying any of that. It grows in the ditch here, I feed it to the hogs, makes em happy.

She signed up for th ecarry class on the 24th so she will wait till after and buy it herself cause she wants too.

I showed her my high power, she likes it, I think it is hers now......

My daughter is also taking the class with her. She is 23 and has a good job so she too will buy her own. I will stand there and watch answer questions etc.
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