The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 5, 2012, 09:51 AM   #1
WildBill45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2011
Location: Western PA.
Posts: 1,446
Car Jacking real world shooting drills, fun gunning...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ5dKcHq1Ak

I did a short video of one of my practices, drill sessions, with this one being anti-Car-Jacked techniques...

LIke most real self defense techniques they must be practiced as you do it in the real situations ... watching and reading is informative and fun, but real practice hours is a must!!!

What separates the shooters from bad guys, is being a shooter, and that title does not come cheap! Most bad guys couldn't land spit on a real fighter, and real fighters are usually real shooters!!!

Keep working hard! If you ain't wet, cold, and hungry ... you ain't training hard enough!!!

BEST VIEWING IS FULL SCREED AT 720HD
__________________


.........................................................
"If Ands and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be like Christmas"

Last edited by WildBill45; March 5, 2012 at 10:16 AM.
WildBill45 is offline  
Old March 5, 2012, 10:05 AM   #2
g.willikers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2008
Posts: 5,183
Excellent.
Thanks.
I do this, from an old car that's collecting dust in our garage.
With airsoft, not the real thing, though.
But it works pretty good, too.
__________________
Lock the doors, they're coming in the windows.
g.willikers is offline  
Old March 5, 2012, 10:14 AM   #3
C0untZer0
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 21, 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,555
Quote:
Keep working hard! If you ain't wet, cold, and hungry ... you ain't training hard enough!!!
What if you're in the Mojave Desert?
C0untZer0 is offline  
Old March 5, 2012, 10:17 AM   #4
WildBill45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2011
Location: Western PA.
Posts: 1,446
Quote:
What if you're in the Mojave Desert?
Practice at night!
__________________


.........................................................
"If Ands and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be like Christmas"
WildBill45 is offline  
Old March 5, 2012, 10:19 AM   #5
WildBill45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2011
Location: Western PA.
Posts: 1,446
Quote:
With airsoft, not the real thing
That is better than nothing, but the muzzle blast near or in a car is hard to simulate, and the recoil shooting one handed, especially weak handed, is something that changes the dynamics of simulated shooting.
__________________


.........................................................
"If Ands and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be like Christmas"
WildBill45 is offline  
Old March 5, 2012, 10:42 AM   #6
C0untZer0
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 21, 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,555
I worked with a guy who was paralyzed from the waist down after being shot in a car jacking.

He was in a White Castle drive-thru, the car-jacker seemingly appeared from nowhere, and told him to get out of the car.

My co-worker's car was pulled up so close to the drive-up window that he couldn't open his car door all the way and was evidently moving too slow for the car-jacker's liking so he shot him and dragged him out of the car.

My point is, you don't really know what a car jacker is going to do - they may seem satisfied with just taking your car and letting you go, but anything could set them off and they could start pulling that trigger.
C0untZer0 is offline  
Old March 5, 2012, 10:45 AM   #7
g.willikers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2008
Posts: 5,183
You are mighty lucky to have a place to practice this kind of stuff.
No range in our area would allow this kind of live fire practice, so airsoft is all that's available.

If the car isn't obstructed, and it probably won't be if the carjacker wants a quick getaway, what's wrong with just flooring the accelerator and scooting away?
__________________
Lock the doors, they're coming in the windows.
g.willikers is offline  
Old March 5, 2012, 12:12 PM   #8
WildBill45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2011
Location: Western PA.
Posts: 1,446
Quote:
If the car isn't obstructed, and it probably won't be if the carjacker wants a quick getaway, what's wrong with just flooring the accelerator and scooting away?
We can what if everything in a very short video...

What if there is traffic blocking you in?

What if he shoots as you drove by; at 60 MPH you are going 88 feet per second, a 9mm is going 1200 feet per second, your kid may lose...

What if, what if....

You can only hone your skills overall, and then deal with the situation through the strength of superior skills!!!

Then the bad guy, before he dies, can what if, himself to death!!!
__________________


.........................................................
"If Ands and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be like Christmas"

Last edited by WildBill45; March 5, 2012 at 12:13 PM. Reason: add a word or two
WildBill45 is offline  
Old March 5, 2012, 01:29 PM   #9
C0untZer0
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 21, 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,555
Dumb criminals do exist, but I think someone would be extremely fortunate to have the carjacker initiate the car jacking from a position where he can be run over. Flooring it does create a moving target but it probably doesn't do a whole lot to disrupt the assailant. In other words he can start shooting you.

IMO, I think it's better tactics to engage the assailant. As has been discussed on this forum before, it's a lot harder to shoot someone while their shooting at you. Every scenario is different but I think in many car-jacking scenarios the best tactic is to engage the assailant. If it doesn't put him down, hopefully it has him jumping around and /or running and that might be the time to flee.
C0untZer0 is offline  
Old March 6, 2012, 04:16 PM   #10
Crioche
Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2012
Location: Northwest UK
Posts: 36
In Northern Ireland on operations we were constantly under threat of being car jacked by the opposition (the terrorists), as we drove around in civilian clothes carrying 9mm pistols.

We were trained to do this:

1. Someone appears and wants your car, usually associated with having a pistol or AK47 pointed at you!
2. Behave like an ordinary person and give them the car - they have no idea you are armed and know what you are doing.
3. As soon as the opponent is in the driving seat, immediately move to the front headlight area of the car (but not directly infront of it!!!) and draw your pistol
4. Issue a challenge - 'Stop or I Fire'
5. If they even twitch - give them a double tap to the face
6. If their passenger twitches - repeat step 5

It's simple and effective; the majority of the time the people who are hijacking you are amateurs who have been told 'here's a gun, go and get me a getaway car for a job I'm doing'. The main players are at their holding area awaiting the car so they can do their task.

9 times out of 10 when you do this to the 'car jackers' they require clean underwear and a reserved cell at the Police Station.

PS. It also requires balls of steel to do well! (which is British-speak for having big Cojones!)

Enjoy...
__________________
Mike
Crioche is offline  
Old March 6, 2012, 05:08 PM   #11
BlackFeather
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 12, 2009
Location: West Coast
Posts: 450
Those targets were far... Most car jackings require someone standing next to the car. I've not see many where they don't already have the gun aimed at the driver and ready to shoot.

They may also be in the car next to you, before they get out and have a gun in your face, or often the passengers. It's a common surprise tactic used by Mexican/Central/South American criminals, I believe. What Crioche said makes sense, and my work there, but usually in the videos I've seen they make you lay on the ground. Again, it can be "What ifed" to death... (At the time I heard of this Mexico had more car jackings a day than the U.S. did in the previous year.)

Honestly, I can't say I've got any solutions for it though. /Armchair commando
__________________
"Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men." - Miyamoto Musashi

[Insert random irrelevant religious quote here]
BlackFeather is offline  
Old March 6, 2012, 09:02 PM   #12
WildBill45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2011
Location: Western PA.
Posts: 1,446
Quote:
3. As soon as the opponent is in the driving seat, immediately move to the front headlight area of the car (but not directly infront of it!!!) and draw your pistol
4. Issue a challenge - 'Stop or I Fire'
5. If they even twitch - give them a double tap to the face
6. If their passenger twitches - repeat step 5
If you did this here YOU WOULD BE THE ONE IN PRISON!

Once you are out and out of danger you can't shoot someone, and the passenger too ... come on now, this is bad and dangerous advice for use in the civilian world here in the good ole USA...
__________________


.........................................................
"If Ands and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be like Christmas"
WildBill45 is offline  
Old March 6, 2012, 09:33 PM   #13
robhof
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 16, 2007
Posts: 702
robhof

I would leave out the comand "if you move I'll fire" and shoot, I'll take my chances with the law; as there will be no live contradiction of my story. If you're in my house, car, ect. armed and threatening to do harm, you're part of history. As a 20+ year vetran of the USAF and having been in places that we aren't officially in, I refuse to be anyone's victim.
robhof is offline  
Old March 7, 2012, 02:02 AM   #14
Crioche
Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2012
Location: Northwest UK
Posts: 36
Quote:
If you did this here YOU WOULD BE THE ONE IN PRISON!
Absolutely I accept what you are saying; never forget we were military professionals working with 'rules of engagement' and the practice I mentioned was within our ROEs.

Amazing, isn't it, that the law is so different in our 2 countries?

We were deemed to still be under threat from the car jackers because he were near the front of the car and about to get run over by them; we were, I imagine, exploiting a legal grey area because there was no way we were going to allow anyone to car jack us.

I imagine the thing about 'if they twitch shoot them' may be more applicable than you think. If a person with a pistol had just car jacked you; and inside the car they made a move that you honestly believed was a prelude to them shooting you, we were perfectly entitled to shoot them. Is that the case in the USA?
__________________
Mike
Crioche is offline  
Old March 7, 2012, 08:47 AM   #15
WildBill45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2011
Location: Western PA.
Posts: 1,446
Quote:
I imagine the thing about 'if they twitch shoot them' may be more applicable than you think. If a person with a pistol had just car jacked you; and inside the car they made a move that you honestly believed was a prelude to them shooting you, we were perfectly entitled to shoot them. Is that the case in the USA?
First, you are right the differences between jobs and countries play a major part in how you act. As far as the twitch goes, it depends on whether you are law enforcement dealing with a felon using a weapon ... in some cases in that world it may apply, but for citizens to go past escaping the danger is dangerous here in the court room. If your kids were still in the car, or wife, innocent, etc. then the rules change for civilians as well if they are trying the save another from serious bodily harm or death.

Here, it so depends on if you are in a liberal area such as California or New England, or a more Constitutionally guided area such Colorado, Texas, or even Florida. The results from actions may not result in like outcomes in court ... sad but true!
__________________


.........................................................
"If Ands and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be like Christmas"
WildBill45 is offline  
Old March 7, 2012, 08:51 AM   #16
WildBill45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2011
Location: Western PA.
Posts: 1,446
Quote:
I'll take my chances with the law; as there will be no live contradiction of my story.
Don't count on that! Most car jackings happen in the city, not some lonely country road where not many peering eyes are about. In the city, someone would probably be taping you on their cell phone!

A car jacking just took place here:

http://www.wgal.com/news/30609135/detail.html
__________________


.........................................................
"If Ands and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be like Christmas"

Last edited by WildBill45; March 7, 2012 at 09:00 AM.
WildBill45 is offline  
Old March 7, 2012, 09:11 AM   #17
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 7,864
Quote:
Keep working hard! If you ain't wet, cold, and hungry ... you ain't training hard enough!!!
I favor practical drills over those that get me wet wet cold and hungry. Some examples: 1) we will set up a table and chairs, like we are sitting in a restaurant, bank etc. that is being held up and practice seeking cover and drawing from a seated position. 2) My favorite is the ATM stick-up - gets you used to reacting to people sneaking up from behind, out of the bushes, or off to the side. Nothing says you can't have your hand in your pocket on your gun while you are pushing your card into an ATM machine, right?
Skans is offline  
Old March 7, 2012, 09:40 AM   #18
WildBill45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2011
Location: Western PA.
Posts: 1,446
Awful nice of you to provide chairs, heat and popcorn for training, but in my real life experiences I missed those opps. Train as you do for real!

Besides the topic is car jacking, not ATM training in a comfy chair! heheehe
__________________


.........................................................
"If Ands and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be like Christmas"
WildBill45 is offline  
Old March 7, 2012, 12:42 PM   #19
locnload
Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2010
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 94
Admittedly, I have never been carjacked. I drive an 8 year old Chevy with 165K on it, not exactly a hot item for people looking to make big bucks from stealing cars. I suspect that most carjackings in the USA are simply punks wanting to joy ride and make some points with their "Homies". There is not much glory in having their toes run over as a driver pulls away giving them the one finger wave, so they are likely to visit violence on you no matter how compliant you are. Maybe its just me but I believe that every time one of these squirrels gets away with it, the more embolden they become as a whole. As previously said, we could "what if" the possible senarios until Obama becomes a conservative, but each of us will have to read the situation on the ground if and when we are faced with it just as any other SD situation. Keep up your skills so you have options, stay alert, have your mind made up about what you are willing to do and what your personal "trigger points" are. By that I mean those things that will make you decide its time to abandon your car, drive away making a fast moving target, or put two rounds in center mass. Just my car, OK, I could use a new one anyway, smash it up good. Take my car when my disabled daughter is in it and can't get out fast enough, sorry Skippy, its hammer time. Then I think about the fact that when I sheepishly hand over my car to some illiterate punk, is it not likely that that same punk will be jumping into a car with a young mother and her baby the next day? This time more self assured and eager to demonstrate his "manhood". Maybe it will be my daughter and grandson in that car tomorrow.

Now excuse me while I go put an additional spare mag in the storage pocket of my drivers door.
locnload is offline  
Old March 7, 2012, 03:49 PM   #20
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 7,864
Quote:
Awful nice of you to provide chairs, heat and popcorn for training, but in my real life experiences I missed those opps.
Dude, you're sitting down inside of a car! How is that more "rigorous training" than running a drill while sitting in a chair at a table when confronted with an assault?
Skans is offline  
Old March 8, 2012, 12:13 PM   #21
WildBill45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2011
Location: Western PA.
Posts: 1,446
Quote:
Dude, you're sitting down inside of a car! How is that more "rigorous training" than running a drill while sitting in a chair at a table when confronted with an assault
?

Cars are a box, getting in and out with the seatbelt catching stuff, the steering wheel blocks your gun hand, the roof is hitting your head, whilst your feet must lift up over the floor jam, and the door must be opened while you hide and control your gun, then get accurate shots off in the middle of all this. The door jam, steering wheel, and seat limits the ability to turn right to left and around, unlike your chair, so shooting through a porthole is even more limited in angles, and up and down views. You are a fish in a barrel to the shooter who is outside with unlimited angles, views, and the ability to turn and change location. Try it first, then make such comments...

Many, many cops have been killed and will be killed trying to get out of their car to confront suspects that would not be as dangerous if ONLY they were sitting in a chair on the freeway for convenience sake, wouldn't that be nice, life would be so FAIR!!!

And you think sitting in a chair in a room is the same?

I guess war is just sitting in your chair playing video games... PLease...

Anyone with real street experience with a comment please, please.... Tyros and their theories... GEeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzz

I never said it was rigorous, I said it was DANGEROUS AND DIFFICULT, WITH LIMITED OPTIONS, THAT REQUIRES HIGHER SKILLS, WHICH REQUIRES ACTUALLY DOING IT IN "REAL WORLD" TRAINING!!!

YOU DON'T NEED TO BE A MARATHON RUNNER TO GET KILLED, NOTHING RIGOROUS ABOUT GETTING DEAD!!!
__________________


.........................................................
"If Ands and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be like Christmas"

Last edited by WildBill45; March 8, 2012 at 12:27 PM. Reason: add quote, and a sentence or two...
WildBill45 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11530 seconds with 7 queries