The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 4, 2012, 07:39 PM   #1
Ricky Bobby
Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2011
Posts: 48
Reloading the 40 S&W

I soon might be reloading this caliber for a Springfield XDsc & would like opinions on bullets and powder choice.

I would like to shoot plated bullets and am wondering what everybody prefers? I have looked at Berrys Mfg, Rainier Ballistics, and The Bullet Works. Are there any others out there worth looking at?

What grain bullets would be best & what style?

Also, what powders are going to do the job? I was wondering if Titegroup would be a good choice?

Any info on this matter would greatly be appreciated. Thanks.
Ricky Bobby is offline  
Old March 4, 2012, 08:27 PM   #2
Hammerhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,563
Titegroup is a little fast for my tastes in the .40. Universal is 'just right'.

I use Berry's and Rainier 165s and 180s with good results.
Hammerhead is offline  
Old March 4, 2012, 08:47 PM   #3
NESHOOTER
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 16, 2009
Posts: 509
I reload 165gr's z-max, 160gr XTP'S, 155 XTP'S on the .40 and the latest hornady reload book has more tightgroup charges more than the hogdon reloading book I have. I only reload with Tightgroup for all my pistols however, I don't shoot for IPDA and as far as grouping I hit in the 6'' at 25 yrs and for selfdefense is good enough for me....

I do like berry's plated bullets I use for plinking.
NESHOOTER is offline  
Old March 4, 2012, 09:10 PM   #4
jepp2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 1,319
Quote:
I would like to shoot plated bullets and am wondering what everybody prefers?
I have shot some Rainier plated but don't any longer. I can buy Montana Gold jacketed in case lots for less than plated. So I either shoot lead or jacketed.

For powders, especially for someone just starting to load for the 40 S&W I would suggest powders in the 32-50 burn rate. The reason being, if you happen to have any problems with setback you will not get into trouble with pressure spikes like you will with a faster powder. Once you gain some experience and want to try faster powders the risk of problems will be less.
jepp2 is offline  
Old March 4, 2012, 09:10 PM   #5
noylj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2007
Location: Between CA and NM
Posts: 485
Why shoot plated? You can get top-of-the-line jacketed bullets from Montana Gold, Precision Delta, and Zero Bullets (see Powder Valley) for the same money. Never found a plated bullet as accurate as a jacketed bullet.
I use cast lead bullets for all my .40 and .45 applications. Cheaper and very accurate. Check prices at mastercastbullets.com, Missouri Bullets, and Penn Bullets.
If I absolutely HAD to use plated, I would probably check Berry's first--however, that nightmare might be enough for me to really decrease my shooting.
noylj is offline  
Old March 4, 2012, 09:37 PM   #6
taurus4life
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2011
Posts: 164
Quote:
Why shoot plated? You can get top-of-the-line jacketed bullets from Montana Gold, Precision Delta, and Zero Bullets (see Powder Valley) for the same money. Never found a plated bullet as accurate as a jacketed bullet.
um i don't know about that. there is about a 30$ difference in price(powder valley) between the plated bullets and the jacketed ones. that's a pretty big variance especially if your just gonna be loading them for plinking.
taurus4life is offline  
Old March 4, 2012, 10:21 PM   #7
Huskerguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 346
I load both cast and plated Berry's in my XDM 40. I have tried HS-6 and Titegroup. I get excellent results with TG. I use 3.5 grains for cast and 4.2 grains for Berry's at 1.125 OAL.
Huskerguy is offline  
Old March 4, 2012, 10:24 PM   #8
dunerjeff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 31, 2011
Location: central Wisconsin
Posts: 440
Every time someone asks about plated,there is always the response the "Montana Gold are the same price"ect,, I wonder where they get that from, compare the prices, example: 10mm 165gr fp Berrys - $99/1000 or $297/3000 ,OK now from Montana Gold website : 10mm 165gr FMJ-$142/100 or $320/2700.
Precision Delta is more and you have to buy 2000:10mm 165gr FMJ=$120/1000 ,$236 for 2000 ,$352/3000

How is that even close to cheaper???? Plus a person is restricted to very few styles of bullets with those.I don't know if maybe one or two sizes or calibers are actually cheaper but none that I ever compared where even close.
Not trying to start an argument but I don't think people should be telling someone to not buy another brand or style while telling them it is cheaper for something else, that is not. If someone has some different numbers PM me,and I'll change my post .

I like Berrys for plated, good quality, fast shipping, BIG selection of styles and actual quantities.But, I also have switched mostly to cast lead for shooting paper due to even cheaper (but yet very accurate) shooting.
__________________
sent via telegram

Last edited by dunerjeff; March 4, 2012 at 10:41 PM.
dunerjeff is offline  
Old March 4, 2012, 11:28 PM   #9
Hammerhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,563
There seems to be as much of a bias against plated bullets as there is against 'plastic pistols'.

They're still cheaper, more so if you're buying in small lots and are very accurate if you don't crush them with too much crimp or those gawd awful FCD dies. (I guess I have my own biases)
Hammerhead is offline  
Old March 5, 2012, 06:04 AM   #10
Ricky Bobby
Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2011
Posts: 48
Do any of you know if the lead cast bullets would be an issue, through a Springfield XDsc?

I thought I read somewhere about the lead bullets can cause pressure spikes in Glock style handguns because of the type of rifling in the barrels. This would be my 1st handgun to reload for and I just want to be safe when doing it.

Those Penn bullets look to be pretty nice, and are priced right. Their 165's with a dose of Universal or AA #7 behind them, would probably make a nice practice round.
Ricky Bobby is offline  
Old March 5, 2012, 06:18 AM   #11
dunerjeff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 31, 2011
Location: central Wisconsin
Posts: 440
I have two XDMs, a .40 & .45 ,they both shoot lead without any issues.They have the "normal" rifling, if there is such a thing, though many do shoot lead in Glocks without problems also.
The only type of bullet that you may not be able to use is SWC. I know in the past, many had jamming issues with the standard XD's, not the XDM's .I don't have any problems with them, but I do not know about the SC's.
__________________
sent via telegram
dunerjeff is offline  
Old March 5, 2012, 07:18 AM   #12
Don P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,786
Huskerguy, what weight bullet are you using with that powder charge. I have 140 grain TCFP from Missouri and can't find any data for them and Titegroup in 40S&W
__________________
NRA Life Member, NRA Range Safety Officer, IDPA Safety Officer
As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.
Don P is offline  
Old March 5, 2012, 03:52 PM   #13
Lead Express
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2012
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 125
The best recipe that I've found for my Glock 23 is this below. It burns clean and recoil is light enough for fast follow up shots in IDPA.

6.1 gn Power Pistol
CCI 500 primer
Powerbond 180 gn plated FP bullets

I've ordered from a few bullet companies, but Powerbond is cheap and has free shipping on all of their orders. I order on Saturday nights and they always arrive that next Tuesday or Wednesday.
__________________
”An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.”
~Col. Jeff Cooper
Lead Express is offline  
Old March 5, 2012, 04:07 PM   #14
Don P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,786
Quote:
The best recipe that I've found for my Glock 23 is this below.
Thanks, unfortunately does me no good being I use different powder ,primer, and bullets
__________________
NRA Life Member, NRA Range Safety Officer, IDPA Safety Officer
As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.
Don P is offline  
Old March 5, 2012, 04:14 PM   #15
amamnn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2006
Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA
Posts: 1,323
Berry 155 gr FP and N-340 work quite well in both my Hi-Power and MP 40

I have recently gone to a lighter recoil spring and will be loading Berry 135 gr RS bullets.

While many other retailers offer Berry bullets, Powder Valley seems to have what I am looking for in stock more often than the others. Sometimes it's better to order direct from Berry--free freight on orders over $50..
__________________
"If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal
amamnn is offline  
Old March 5, 2012, 06:05 PM   #16
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 11,286
I like Montana Gold bullets ...but I've used Berry's as well ( but you need to keep Berry's under 1200 fps ).../ Rainier you need to load to lead specs - not jacketed specs.

Rainier is a much thinner plating than Berry's ...and I would not load a Rainier bullet in any thing over 1,000 fps .../ or based on what I've seen --- you're going to get a lot of cracking in the plating ...bullets fragmenting as they go downrange...( shoot 6 rounds ..and finding 7 or 8 jagged holes in the target is not uncommon with Rainier...) ...but they're fine in rounds like .45 acp.

Rainiers ...and most plated bullets ...are not as consistent as a true jacketed bullet....if you're loading 180gr ...in a plated bullet you may find in a handful of bullets ...some at 175 and some at 185 grains...depends on the batch. It doesn't matter that much just for range practice...but they vary quite a bit. Berry's don't seem to vary as much as Rainiers...and Berry's plating seems thicker than Rainier to me.

If you looked at a handful of Montana Gold in 180gr ....you're not going to find they vary more than 0.1grain ..../ they're a good product. Berry's - delivered - are just a little cheaper.

In .40S&W - I like either Hodgdon TiteGroup or Universal.../ and unless you have a press that has an automotic powder check ....I'd stay away from TiteGroup and go with Universal ...because its more foregiving ..in terms of its min and max variation.../ and I've had good luck with both.
BigJimP is offline  
Old March 5, 2012, 06:37 PM   #17
serf 'rett
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 25, 2009
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 1,306
Berrys - 165 grain and 180 grain FP. Good price and product; my opinion.

Power Pistol for "full" power loads and W-231 for target loads. Both of these powders meter well for me.
__________________
A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.
serf 'rett is offline  
Old March 5, 2012, 07:22 PM   #18
jepp2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 1,319
Quote:
Every time someone asks about plated,there is always the response the "Montana Gold are the same price"ect,, I wonder where they get that from, compare the prices, example: 10mm 165gr fp Berrys - $99/1000 or $297/3000 ,OK now from Montana Gold website : 10mm 165gr FMJ-$142/100 or $320/2700.
The number I see at Berry's:

for 180 gr 40 S&W $122.25/1000 shipped. Individual bullet cost $0.12225 each.

for 115 gr. 9mm $82.78/1000 shipped. Individual bullet cost $0.08278

The numbers from Montana Gold:

180 gr. 40 S&W CMJ $325/2500 shipped. Individual bullet cost $0.13 each. So slightly more than plated.

for 115 gr. FMJ 9mm $305/4000 shipped. Individual bullet cost $07625 each. This is less than plated.

To me that is "about the same price". That is why I don't shoot plated.
jepp2 is offline  
Old March 5, 2012, 07:31 PM   #19
Ricky Bobby
Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2011
Posts: 48
Thanks to everyone for giving me some good solid info to use as a starting point for the 40 S&W.



Ricky Bobby is offline  
Old March 5, 2012, 08:00 PM   #20
noylj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2007
Location: Between CA and NM
Posts: 485
Maybe I Just Don't Understand the Math...

Well, let me be a little clearer.
1) I have shot plated bullets, both Berry’s and Rainier, in 9mm, .38 Special, and .45ACP. In all cases, they were significantly less accurate than cast bullets--for a lot more money.
2) At the current time, I can buy jacketed bullets in 9mm and .38, from MG, PD, and Zero (from Powder Valley) for what I would pay for “top of the line” cast bullets. Thus, all I have ordered lately in those calibers are jacketed.
3) For .40 and above, given my experience of a less-than-Bullseye level of accuracy with plated, all I shoot (home cast or purchased) are cast lead.
4) Maybe I just don't understand the numbers, but here is the way I see it--

40 caliber bullet prices:
From bullet companies I have previously purchased from and, except for the plated bullets, found to perform very well--
Montana Gold:
I would shoot 165gn JHPs, but I know that most folks seem to love HEAVY bullets. Most seem to be afraid of JHPs and want no exposed lead. Thus, the only bullet for most would be the .40 180gn CMJ for $325/2500, or $130/1000, shipping included.
Precision Delta:
Sorry, no CMJ, so it would have to be the .40 180gn FMJ-FN for $122/1000. If you buy in bulk (6000), the price would be $120/1000.
Zero Bullets:
Again, I would get the 180gn JHPs if I had to have a 180gn bullet. However, using the FMJ from Powder Valley:
.40 180gn FMJ for $227/2000 or $113.50/1000.
Berry’s:
.40 180gn P-FP for $122.25/1000
Rainier (from Midway):
.40 180gn P-RNFP for $119.99/1000 plus S/H
X-Treme:
.40 180gn P-RNFP for $95/1000 plus S/H
Precision Bullets:
.40 185gn moly-koted L-RNF for $232/2500, or $92.80/1000 (shipping included)
Bayou Bullets:
.40 180gn moly-koted L-TC for $78/1000 plus S/H
MasterCastBullets.com:
.40 180gn L-TC for $69.41/1000 plus S/H
Missouri Bullets:
IDP #5: .40 180gn L-TCFP for $38/500, or $76/1000 plus S/H
Bootheel Bullets:
I use the 155gn L-SWC for $68/1000, but for IDPA:
.40 180gn L-TC: $77/1000 plus S/H

Thus, my first choice of bullet, MG, would be $7.75/1000 bullets more expensive than Berry’s—that is 0.78 CENTS more per bullet. I’ll take the top flite bullet myself. Precision Delta and Zero seem to still be right in amongst Berry’s and Rainier’s. X-Treme seems to be the low-cost leader for plated bullets.
Based on this analysis, I would buy every single 180gn FMJ that Powder Valley has before the prices go up.
noylj is offline  
Old March 5, 2012, 09:12 PM   #21
dunerjeff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 31, 2011
Location: central Wisconsin
Posts: 440
Jepp2/Noylj, I now see why people say berrys are more,they are not looking for the cheapest place to get them(even though they do for the others).
Powder valleys are all $99/ 1000! NOT $122/1000 ,they are more at Berryys direct,always have been. Powder Valley is quite a bit cheaper,Why? don't know for sure.
So redo those figures to reflect the actual cost that they can be boughten for.
__________________
sent via telegram
dunerjeff is offline  
Old March 6, 2012, 08:26 PM   #22
beex215
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 10, 2010
Posts: 317
lots of good info. posting for later
__________________
my youtube channel

http://www.youtube.com/user/beehasagun1?feature=mhee
beex215 is offline  
Old March 6, 2012, 09:36 PM   #23
jim8115
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 23, 2011
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 186
I load the 180 plated from theBulletWorks with 4.5 Grains w231 @ 1.125
They chrono about 825 FPS from my XD40
The lead 180 truncated cone ones that they sell wont chamber in my XD unless i set them way deep --1.085 ......so I havent tried them, because I am afraid of the pressure, since I really dont know what powder load would be safe that deep
jim8115 is offline  
Old March 6, 2012, 10:07 PM   #24
Ricky Bobby
Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2011
Posts: 48
That is something else I was wanting to ask.

What style bullets tend to feed the best?

Truncated Cone or Round Nose Flat Points or ???
Ricky Bobby is offline  
Old March 7, 2012, 03:39 PM   #25
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 11,286
What shaped bullets feed the best ...is a gun issue / and maybe an overall length issue in the cartridge ....

My Sigs ( 239's, 226's and an X-Five in .40S&W ) ....handle the bullet shapes from Montana Gold and Berry's just fine...in 180gr ...and they're both FP's ..../ I'm not sure what you mean by Truncated Cone shape..
BigJimP is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13073 seconds with 7 queries