Deringer over under from 1860's

Derekc294 · February 27, 2012, 07:50 PM

I inherited this gun a few years back and was curious if anyone else has or has seen one. Made by American Arms Co. Boston,Mass

**James K** · February 28, 2012, 01:06 AM

I can't see the markings and you don't indicate the caliber, but according to Flayderman (8A-007 through 8A-010) there were only about 5000 of those made. The rarest is .22 RF in both barrels, with an estimated 50 made. Others were a combination of .22RF and .32RF, and both barrels in .32RF, and and both barrels in .41 RF. There may have been some in .38 RF.

He gives a value of $2750 (in my edition) for one in fine condition with both barrels in .22. I think yours would probably go to that level or close. The .22/.32 combo runs around $850, the .32/.32 $950, the .41/.41 around $1750.

A very nice and very collectible item, often not recognized and consequently downrated.

Jim

Derekc294 · February 28, 2012, 06:56 PM

The caliber is unknown I havent tried loading it at all.
Engraved with Wheelers UAT Oct 31,1865-June 19 1866 on one side and
American Arms Co, Boston Mass on the other.

Thank You Jim! I appreciate the info.

**James K** · February 28, 2012, 08:46 PM

I think "UAT" is "PAT" for Wheeler's Patent.

Jim

Derekc294 · February 28, 2012, 09:12 PM

I read that somewhere just can find the caliber size. It's an interesting piece for sure.

**Mike Irwin** · February 29, 2012, 08:12 AM

You can estimate the caliber fairly closely using simply a ruler and measuring the hole in the muzzle.

A .22 is going to be under 1/4 of an inch, a .32 will be close to 5/16ths of an inch, the .38 will be almost exactly 3/8ths of an inch, and the .41 will be about 13/32nds of an inch.

Derekc294 · February 29, 2012, 08:41 PM

Thanks Mike!! I'll measure it tonight and post up the measurements

madcratebuilder · March 1, 2012, 09:27 AM

I see these sell fairly often. Joe Salter had a .32 rimfire listed not long ago, I recall it was about $800.

Heres' one listed for $300-500.

You well see the American Arms Co. derringers listed on the antique gun auction sites regularly. I don't recall ever seeing one bring over 1K.

Derekc294 · March 2, 2012, 01:58 AM

Thanks for the info. I'm not looking to sell it I'm looking to shoot it and put it back in the safe. Didn't get a chance to measure the barrels.

**James K** · March 2, 2012, 03:54 PM

If it is .32 or .41, finding rimfire ammo will be difficult and if .22, it should not be fired with modern ammunition, though some will say the BB Caps made by Aguila or CCI will be OK.

I would suggest not firing it at all.

Jim

Derekc294 · March 5, 2012, 03:04 AM

Thanks Jim. I guess back in the safe she goes

February 27, 2012, 07:50 PM	#1
Derekc294 Member Join Date: July 6, 2009 Location: ILLINOIS Posts: 61	Deringer over under from 1860's I inherited this gun a few years back and was curious if anyone else has or has seen one. Made by American Arms Co. Boston,Mass

February 28, 2012, 01:06 AM	#2
James K Staff Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 16,428	I can't see the markings and you don't indicate the caliber, but according to Flayderman (8A-007 through 8A-010) there were only about 5000 of those made. The rarest is .22 RF in both barrels, with an estimated 50 made. Others were a combination of .22RF and .32RF, and both barrels in .32RF, and and both barrels in .41 RF. There may have been some in .38 RF. He gives a value of $2750 (in my edition) for one in fine condition with both barrels in .22. I think yours would probably go to that level or close. The .22/.32 combo runs around $850, the .32/.32 $950, the .41/.41 around $1750. A very nice and very collectible item, often not recognized and consequently downrated. Jim __________________ Jim K

February 28, 2012, 08:46 PM	#4
James K Staff Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 16,428	I think "UAT" is "PAT" for Wheeler's Patent. Jim __________________ Jim K

February 29, 2012, 08:12 AM	#6
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 33,119	You can estimate the caliber fairly closely using simply a ruler and measuring the hole in the muzzle. A .22 is going to be under 1/4 of an inch, a .32 will be close to 5/16ths of an inch, the .38 will be almost exactly 3/8ths of an inch, and the .41 will be about 13/32nds of an inch. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 2, 2012, 03:54 PM	#10
James K Staff Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 16,428	If it is .32 or .41, finding rimfire ammo will be difficult and if .22, it should not be fired with modern ammunition, though some will say the BB Caps made by Aguila or CCI will be OK. I would suggest not firing it at all. Jim __________________ Jim K

February 28, 2012, 06:56 PM	#3
Derekc294 Member Join Date: July 6, 2009 Location: ILLINOIS Posts: 61	The caliber is unknown I havent tried loading it at all. Engraved with Wheelers UAT Oct 31,1865-June 19 1866 on one side and American Arms Co, Boston Mass on the other. Thank You Jim! I appreciate the info.

February 28, 2012, 09:12 PM	#5
Derekc294 Member Join Date: July 6, 2009 Location: ILLINOIS Posts: 61	I read that somewhere just can find the caliber size. It's an interesting piece for sure.

February 29, 2012, 08:41 PM	#7
Derekc294 Member Join Date: July 6, 2009 Location: ILLINOIS Posts: 61	Thanks Mike!! I'll measure it tonight and post up the measurements

March 1, 2012, 09:27 AM	#8
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,864	I see these sell fairly often. Joe Salter had a .32 rimfire listed not long ago, I recall it was about $800. Heres' one listed for $300-500. You well see the American Arms Co. derringers listed on the antique gun auction sites regularly. I don't recall ever seeing one bring over 1K.

March 2, 2012, 01:58 AM	#9
Derekc294 Member Join Date: July 6, 2009 Location: ILLINOIS Posts: 61	Thanks for the info. I'm not looking to sell it I'm looking to shoot it and put it back in the safe. Didn't get a chance to measure the barrels.

March 5, 2012, 03:04 AM	#11
Derekc294 Member Join Date: July 6, 2009 Location: ILLINOIS Posts: 61	Thanks Jim. I guess back in the safe she goes