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Old March 5, 2012, 02:13 PM   #26
TexasJustice7
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Quote:
Oysterboy: What about vandalism? Like breaking out car windows?

Also you said nighttime so what about daytime?
Well what I quoted was the Texas Statute. More leeway is given for protecting property at night, in Texas it appears to me. I am not saying that this is right or wrong, just that the law in Texas does not require a person to be in fear of grave bodily injury or death before using deadly force. And this same person in another state, could face serious charges for using deadly force where the law is different. In the OP's posting the guy was in my opinion in fear of serious bodily injury or death because he fled to what he perceived a safe place, a police station. Of course people who don't agree with the laws in any state or free to move somewhere else, or work to have them changed. We as permit holders are have the obligation to know what they are where we live, I think.
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Old March 5, 2012, 02:46 PM   #27
Crioche
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As a Brit is difficult to comment on US Law - probably because I don't know anything about it!

As a former soldier who spent 6 years in Northern Ireland where the locals could be very hostile to us, I can emphathise with the 'gang bangers' scenario. We offered a simple phrase that it was 'better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6'.

What it means is that if you have that right to self defence using lethal force, then have the moral courage to shoot to kill in a confrontation where your life is on the line. Afterward stand up before 12 of your peers in court and say with conviction that you shot the other person to save your own life.
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Old March 6, 2012, 10:40 AM   #28
Bartholomew Roberts
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Quote:
Texas is one of the states where deadly force can be used to protect property as well, even when no threat of serious bodily injury exists.
Yes; I was trying to explain what constituted a "serious bodily injury" of the type that justified deadly force. I was using the Texas statute defining "serious bodily injury" to help show how courts might interpret that.

I'm not understanding why the Texas law on deadly force in defense of property is relevant to this thread? And incidentally, the part of Texas law that you quoted is Section 9.42 of the Penal Code, not Section 9.41 (which deals with non-deadly force to protect property).
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Old March 6, 2012, 12:41 PM   #29
TexasJustice7
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Quote:
Bartholmew Roberts: Yes; I was trying to explain what constituted a "serious bodily injury" of the type that justified deadly force. I was using the Texas statute defining "serious bodily injury" to help show how courts might interpret that.....
Your right, my 9.42 not 9.41. In view of the discussion regarding serious bodily injury or fear of serious bodily injury as the basis for use of deadly force, I was merely pointing out that in some States, at least in Texas,
that deadly force may be used withiout one being in fear of serious bodily injury. I would venture to guess that probably a lot of people believe that
it should be required before deadly force be used in all cases. I won't take
either side of that, just try to understand the laws I must folllow where I
live or travel, pertaining to use of deadly force.
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Old March 6, 2012, 01:48 PM   #30
lincoln5
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Just my two cents on this thread as a LEO. I 100% agree with the earlier poster on this thread about those extremely stupid CCW badges. Also, one thing you need to remember regarding multiple assailants and gang-bangers when dealing with them is that they are going to "lie like hell", even under oath, about what happened. Food for thought. Oh and one other small issue I have with this thread. Every LEO and criminal attorney knows about the Tennesee vs. Garner decision, it's taught in every law enforcement academy in the U.S. and I would assume, every law school as well.

Last edited by lincoln5; March 6, 2012 at 02:13 PM.
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Old March 6, 2012, 11:25 PM   #31
tepin
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Another thought... the prosecutor gets to decide what is reasonable and if his definition doesn't align with yours, 12 jurors get to decide and in many cases these folks wont be gun people and will know nothing about self defense and the law.
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