The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old February 27, 2012, 08:24 AM   #1
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 1,879
Super Scientific Study Proves CCW Meaningless

CCW Proven Ineffective by Experts in Controlled Study

Check it out. I just unloaded, locked up my CCW in the safe and put a trigger lock on it. I hope I can get $5 at the next gun buy back. This video proves it all to me.

Let's discuss how it affected you.
Nathan is offline  
Old February 27, 2012, 08:50 AM   #2
kraigwy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 9,340
In every senario in that film, the guy who burst into the room knew which student had the gun, and went after that student.

How many times in a shooting situation like that does the shooter know which would be victom is carrying.

If you have 25 people in the room, what's the changes of the would be shooter targeting the one guy with the gun? What if there are more then one person carrying?

What if all the 25 were carrying.

Sorry, that video doesn't change any thing about my training or carrying.

Read this study, kind of blows holes in the video.

http://www.pulpless.com/gunclock/kleck1.html
__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old February 27, 2012, 08:58 AM   #3
Hansam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 21, 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 763
Well that does it. I'm going to stop training with my weapons and put my EDC .45 away for good. The video has proven to me that everything I was doing was pointless...

Seriously though that "study" was a crock of bull feces.

It was stacked in favor of a failure. I'm sure it'd be just as easy to put on a "study" that stacked the odds in favor of successful results in a CCW situation.

Crap like that is just how they choose to put it together.
__________________
This is who we are, what we do.
Hansam is offline  
Old February 27, 2012, 09:03 AM   #4
OuTcAsT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2006
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,163
The video "proves" the same thing we preach on here all the time : Training and Practice are crucial tools. But, the exercise was a bit rigged, the BG's knew there was an armed student, and, who he was. I don't think the hoods disguise the students to the point that a trained officer could not pick out the armed target and neutralize him before he could deploy the weapon.

The other thing the video "proved" is that a TV production can be biased to show whatever results you wish to portray, go figure
__________________
WITHOUT Freedom of Thought, there can be no such Thing as Wisdom; and no such Thing as public Liberty, without Freedom of Speech. Silence Dogood

Does not morality imply the last clear chance? - WildAlaska -

Last edited by OuTcAsT; February 27, 2012 at 09:11 AM.
OuTcAsT is offline  
Old February 27, 2012, 09:03 AM   #5
kinggabby
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 22, 2011
Location: OKC
Posts: 473
Did anyone notice that the ones they picked looked like they were not old enough to buy a gun ? And I am sure they edited out the ones that placed one shot between the guys eyes.
kinggabby is offline  
Old February 27, 2012, 09:07 AM   #6
C0untZer0
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 21, 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,555
Cato Institute study of media-reported gun incidents (DGUs and crimes), contradicts the results of this experiment.

Poor Joey, WHY OH WHY DIDN'T HE TUCK HIS SHIRT IN !!!

OH THE HUMANITY !!!

Oy vey - poor Lee Paige, he's was on TV again. no wonder he sued !
C0untZer0 is offline  
Old February 27, 2012, 09:14 AM   #7
zincwarrior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2011
Location: Texas, land of Tex-Mex
Posts: 1,189
Quote:
The video "proves" the same thing we preach on here all the time : Training and Practice are crucial tools. But, the exercise was a bit rigged, the BG's knew there was an armed student, and, who he was. I don't think the hoods disguise the students to the point that a trained officer could not pick out the armed target and neutralize him before he could deploy the weapon.
Looks like the video just proves that if a highly trained shooter runs onto a tesing set to specifically assassinate a person, odds are they will be able to do so.

If it were a real test:
1) the shooter wouldn't know who is armed and where they are, or more precisely, the shooter WOULDN'T KNOW THERE'S ANOTHER SHOOTER IN THE ROOM AT ALL.

2) A further tewst would be done, with no defenseive shooter. How many survive in the first vs. the second. Whats not discussed is that the defensive shooter focuses all the action on them allowing others to get out.
Show the scenario where the BG just stands in the entrance and starts blasting away.
zincwarrior is offline  
Old February 27, 2012, 09:25 AM   #8
C0untZer0
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 21, 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,555
Quote:
Let's discuss how it affected you.
Ok, well Nathan, when I watched this video I felt angry, especially when Diane Sawyer said "remember that a cell phone is a valuable weapon for saving the lives of those around you."


<--- this is my angry face



.
C0untZer0 is offline  
Old February 27, 2012, 09:38 AM   #9
g.willikers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2008
Posts: 4,783
Didn't she also say something like "We have found no incidents where having a gun did any good?"
Ignoring, of course, all the statistics gathered by government agencies to the contrary.
Wonder how some of those propagandizing folks can sleep at night.
__________________
Lock the doors, they're coming in the windows.
g.willikers is offline  
Old February 27, 2012, 09:45 AM   #10
Rusty35
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2011
Posts: 140
While the people in the video were definitely set up to fail, the video has a lot to offer if you disregard the obvious anti intentions.

Would be interesting to see the same test with no ccw in the class, and another with multiple ccw's.
Rusty35 is offline  
Old February 27, 2012, 09:49 AM   #11
Nitesites
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 2011
Posts: 600
Have a cellphone to dial 911 or keep an effective tool to defend my life...hmm. Why can't I have both? Or is that too unfair for the poor, poor BG?
__________________
On Yellow
Nitesites is offline  
Old February 27, 2012, 09:59 AM   #12
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 1,879
Quote:
Wow! Talk about your unlucky days. You are a new CCW holder in a small room filled with actors working against your success. You have minimal to no previous gun experience, you don't have a real gun. Then to top it off, you are attacked by a highly trained(1000's of hours of training and instruction. . .probably former military with combat´╗┐ experience) bad guy who knows you are the person with a gun. Yea, this is realistic!<-sarcasim.
Frankly, I think even the instructor dies if roles revers
My video comment.

Good job ABC news. You proved that a well trained assassin can assassinate a slightly trained loan CCW holder. Thank goodness I don't go around angering assassins.

BTW, the lady killed the assassin. Was she first? How would that wound have affected his will to fight? If I remember right, due to the helmet size, I think she would have been missed or grazed on her real head. She was also hit elsewhere, but again. . when.

Last edited by Frank Ettin; February 27, 2012 at 11:35 AM. Reason: language
Nathan is offline  
Old February 27, 2012, 10:35 AM   #13
ATW525
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 14, 2005
Location: Concord, NH
Posts: 2,683
Quote:
The video "proves" the same thing we preach on here all the time : Training and Practice are crucial tools. But, the exercise was a bit rigged, the BG's knew there was an armed student, and, who he was. I don't think the hoods disguise the students to the point that a trained officer could not pick out the armed target and neutralize him before he could deploy the weapon.
The gunman didn't need to pick out the armed student at all. The setup was that the armed student got delayed while receiving the gun, and then they enter the class after everybody else is already seated. The armed student never had a choice in seating positions so the gunman always knew exactly where the armed student was.
ATW525 is offline  
Old February 27, 2012, 11:38 AM   #14
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,518
This video has been around for ages and discussed numerous times. See post 2 for a link to a decent debunking article.

There's no reason to trample this path again.
Frank Ettin is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
buy back , carry , ccw

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09513 seconds with 7 queries