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Old February 26, 2012, 12:51 AM   #1
JustinBiscuit
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AR15 1-4X scope

Looking for some advice on a new scope. Primary use is 3 Gun. Must have features are...

1. Illuminated ´╗┐´╗┐reticule
2. Both eyes open shooting at close range
3. virtually unbreakable
4. Awesome warranty and customer service.

So far I have narrowed it down to...

1. Vortex Viper HD 1-4x24- $1199.00
- Pros - Wisconsin! FFP, Fiber Optics @ low llight

2. Meopta 1-4x22 - $999.00
- Great glass, 3 gun love, 2fp

3. SWFA SS 1-4x22 - $799.00
- pros - Cheap, FFP,

4. Vortex PST 1-4x24 - $499.00
- Pros - cheapest, 2FP

My first question is, how important is FFP at 1-4 mag?

thx
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Old February 26, 2012, 01:21 AM   #2
TimW77
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AR15 1-4X scope

"Looking for some advice on a new scope. Primary use is 3 Gun. Must have features are..."

In addition to those you mentioned, check out IOR/Valdada.

Have 2 of their scopes a 1.1-4X ($945) and a 2-12X ($1400).

Also check out their new 1-4X "Pitbull" scope ($1100).

Want a cheap 1-4X scope? Although not in the same class as the Valdada scopes, I also have a pair of Millett 1-4X DMS scopes that sell for around $200. One is mounted on a Rock River Arms LAR-8 (.308W). The other is mounted on a Remington 11-87 12g with fully rifled barrel.

I would buy more of any of the above mentioned scopes.

T.
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Old February 26, 2012, 07:51 AM   #3
madcratebuilder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimW77
My first question is, how important is FFP at 1-4 mag?
IMO it's not important. I've used both the Viper HD and PST, both are nice. I'll probably replace my current 1-4 M223 with a PST this spring. If I had a unlimited budget I would get the HD.

With some looking you should be able to beat those listed prices by 10-15%+.
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Old February 26, 2012, 08:12 AM   #4
JustinBiscuit
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IOR/Valdada looks nice. I am a sucker for just about anything German made. THe pitbull is 1x or 4x with nothing in between which I think be a problem for me.
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Old February 26, 2012, 09:04 PM   #5
arizona98tj
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Just curious about the requirement for 1-4x variable.....not being a 3 gun shooter, what in a 3 gun rifle stage would need a 1x equipped AR? I ask this only because I run a 3.5x ACOG on my AR-15. My normal training drills include aimed shots ranging from 7 yds to 200 yds....shooting against the timer. I've never considered fixed power optic I use to be at a disadvantage within that range. I can shoot both eyes open with the ACOG....about half the time I forget to do so.
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Old February 26, 2012, 09:28 PM   #6
gunmoney
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Nightforce, Trijicon, S&B and IOR is actually Romanian.
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Old February 26, 2012, 09:29 PM   #7
Logs
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Can you not go with a 3x9 scope?

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Old February 27, 2012, 08:59 PM   #8
JustinBiscuit
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I went ahead and ordered a Vortex PST. I will post my thoughts in a couple weeks. thx for the help.
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Old February 27, 2012, 09:25 PM   #9
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you're gonna love the Vortex PST
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Old February 27, 2012, 11:19 PM   #10
MidwestRookie
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there's also the Burris TAC30 and MTAC...
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Old February 28, 2012, 06:27 AM   #11
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Trijicon TR24 with triangle post hands down.
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Old February 28, 2012, 06:51 AM   #12
alloy
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You have 2 listed in the Nightforce NXS price range, so it might also be worth a look. Seems sturdy. Japanese parts with an Idaho assembly I believe.


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Old February 28, 2012, 11:20 PM   #13
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Quote:
Burris TAC30
I have one of those on my MSAR556 and it's a very nice little scope. Midway sells them for a great price. You could get two or even three of them for the prices of the others you are looking at. Not saying the others aren't a bit better but _how much_ better? You get into that whole "point of diminishing returns" thing.

Gregg
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Old February 28, 2012, 11:28 PM   #14
TimW77
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"IOR/Valdada looks nice. I am a sucker for just about anything German made. THe pitbull is 1x or 4x with nothing in between which I think be a problem for me."

That is one of the reasons why I have the Valdada 1.1-4X scope instead.


"...and IOR is actually Romanian."

Of course, that is what IOR stands for Romanian Optics Industry (or similar).

Supposedly made from German GLASS...

T.
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Old February 29, 2012, 06:49 AM   #15
trg42wraglefragle
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A question.

I'm assuming that the reason you would want a scope with such small magnification is because its intended for close range and fast target acquisition.

So why are they all made with such a small objective lens?
I would have thought a 1-4x40 scope would provide a much more FOV than a 22mm objective, making the scope better for finding your target and reducing your tunnel vision effect.

Just I thought I've had a few times, please to hang me for asking.
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Old February 29, 2012, 11:00 AM   #16
Nathan
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I like the reduced bell. It seems to reduce weight and is out of the way when manipulating the rifle.

From a design perspective, I think they don't need the larger bell at low power to get good enough night vision.
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Old February 29, 2012, 03:54 PM   #17
btmj
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The beam of light that exits the occular lense has a certain diameter. That diameter can't be any bigger than the occular lense, but in general it is equal to the objective lense diameter divided by the magnification.

Your eyeball at full dilation (at night) can accept a beam up to 7.5 mm (I think... I am testing my memory here). Typical daytime pupil can accept a beam of about 3mm I think. A beam that is larger than your pupil means you can move the scope relative to your eye and still have full view... ie the sweet spot is big.

Example: A 1-4X 20mm scope: at the 1X setting, the beam hitting your eye is 20 mm, which gives you a lot of leeway in positioning that scope. At 2X, the beam is 20 / 2 = 10mm, which still gives you a lot of leeway. At 3X magnification, the beam is 20 / 3 = 6.6mm. At this point, the beam will be just a little smaller than your maximum dilated pupil, but still bigger than your normal daytime pupil. Now at 4X magnification, you certainly start to notice a tunnel vision effect. I will say that it is nowhere as bad as a 4-16X40 at maximum 16X magnification (for instance).

Last edited by btmj; February 29, 2012 at 04:06 PM.
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Old February 29, 2012, 05:27 PM   #18
trg42wraglefragle
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I was looking at a 2x20 ACOG scope last night, and the specs said the FOV at 100yrds was 10yrds.
That seemed to be quite a bit smaller than I would've imagined.

But if people say they work then I guess I'll believe them.
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Old February 29, 2012, 07:44 PM   #19
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A little late to the party, but I did get one of the Vortex 1-4 by mistake. It was a nice preview to what I really ordered. You can read my little "review" if that's what you wanna call it: HERE.

I think you'll be pretty happy with it.
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