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Old February 18, 2012, 05:23 PM   #1
stargazer65
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Two Ladies and two Girls in NYC

Two ladies and two ten year old girls are going to the American Girl store in NYC. They are from CT so they can't carry in NY.

What non-firearm suggestions would you give them to prevent being a victim?

Also, apparently you can't carry pepper spray unless it's bought in New York. How is that a public safety benefit?
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Old February 18, 2012, 05:35 PM   #2
Willie Lowman
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Situational awareness is more useful than a submachinegun as far as not being a victim. Of course that isn't something you can give to someone.
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Old February 18, 2012, 05:46 PM   #3
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Quote:
Situational awareness is more useful than a submachinegun as far as not being a victim. Of course that isn't something you can give to someone.
They probably will make that illegal in NYC soon anyway. Situational awareness could be considered a hate crime, because you might be profiling people who look evil in your opinion.
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Old February 18, 2012, 06:24 PM   #4
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Situational Awareness, basic knowledge/training, and maybe an umbrella.
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Old February 18, 2012, 06:31 PM   #5
Vt.birdhunter
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Number one, stay together.

But honestly, relax. Fifth ave at 49th st is as safe as it comes.
LEO visible on every corner; 3 others you will never see until you need them. Its not Ed Kotch's NYC anymore; they will be very very very safe.

Drive in, eat the $20 to park.
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Old February 18, 2012, 06:35 PM   #6
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Quote:
They probably will make that illegal in NYC soon anyway. Situational awareness could be considered a hate crime, because you might be profiling people who look evil in your opinion.
.......................oh wait wrong one, I meant

But seriously:
Quote:
Situational awareness is more useful than a submachinegun as far as not being a victim.
+100.....and maybe carry a brick in a purse
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Old February 18, 2012, 06:47 PM   #7
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But honestly, relax. Fifth ave at 49th st is as safe as it comes.
You mean it's not like in that Curt Russell movie where the president gets kidnapped?
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Old February 18, 2012, 07:12 PM   #8
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I went to NY on vacation a while back. I carried one of those 2 AA cell Mini Mag Lights. From my understanding, you can't even carry a knife in NY. If the bad guys have a gun, then just hand it over. Even if they have a knife, it is best to hand it over. Its not worth risking your life or serious bodily injury, especially with kids in tow. Now if they try to abduct anyone or worse, then fight with everything and anything you've got.

While I personally hate NYC, it has it's "cultural value" and everyone should visit at least once. So assuming you are NOT going to avoid crime by avoiding NYC, here are a few things I would do to avoid crime in NYC.

- Avoid looking like a tourist. I know this will be impossible for most, especially if it is your first time. Try not to carry too many things (massive packs or camera bags). Keep your eyes open and exercise the situational awareness everyone else is talking about.

- Do not dress in flashy clothes or wear flashy jewelry (watches, handbags, etc...). (Its kind of hard to avoid if you're going to a show or some of the nicer places). If you are going out for a night on the town, take a cab instead of the subway.

- Restrict your excursions to places that are more crowded and only during times when it is more likey for lots of people to be around. Ask the hotel concierge or tourist information places rather then people off of the street.

- Carry all cash, IDs, and credit cards in a safe place. A lot of people use pouches worn around their necks and tuck them inside their shirts. If you do get mugged, just give up your wallet. Consider a secondary wallet if you have a really nice wallet. Only pull out your neck pouch in a private place such as a restroom stall. You never know who is looking.

- Credit cards are much safer than cash in general, but you will need to keep some cash. Do NOT FLASH your cash around. I'm from Miami and have seen this so many times. Some totally oblivious person thinks its cool to show off by whipping out a wad of cash. Its probably a bunch of ones with a few big bills around the outside, but it attracts the wrong kind of attention.

Thats most of the tips I have right now. I will post more if I think of anything. I hope this wasn't too obvious!
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Old February 18, 2012, 09:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Situational awareness is more useful than a submachinegun as far as not being a victim. Of course that isn't something you can give to someone
Not necessarily, Willie, my man.

Sometimes excellent situational awareness is all that gives you time to draw your weapon, with threat detection not possible well enough in advance to avoid the situation.

Wonder how the unarmed store clerk in NYC feels when he's situationally aware enough to know he's about to be the victim of an armed robbery and isn't allowed, by law, to do a damned thing about it--without a year in prison for violating the Sullivan law.
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Old February 18, 2012, 09:08 PM   #10
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When I cannot carry my Clock 19 I carry a real blackthorn Irish Shillelagh. I'm old and use a cane anyway so the big nob on the end of that sucker car really discourage a person from bothering you!
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Old February 18, 2012, 09:50 PM   #11
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When I cant carry, or choose not to carry (usually when drinking) I carry sabre pepper spray.
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Old February 18, 2012, 09:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Also, apparently you can't carry pepper spray unless it's bought in New York. How is that a public safety benefit?
Oops forgot this part, is it legal to buy pepper spray as a non resident in new york? If so i would buy it there, or just go without. Personally would rather go armed but I wouldn't let it stop me from visiting somewhere I wanted to go.
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Old February 19, 2012, 12:34 AM   #13
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lol, I go to NYC all the time, I live 30 minutes away from it, you will be fine, i've been on subways by myself at 3am, no one has bothered me, i've practically lived in manhattan for most of my life in terms of being around and hanging out, its really nowhere near as bad as it use to be like 20-30 years ago, its actually pretty damn safe, and people are always around, you are never really alone in Manhattan.
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Old February 19, 2012, 12:07 PM   #14
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I think Stephen426 has some great advice! I really HATE that I have a NY pistol permit yet I CANT carry in NYC. Its a bunch of crap.
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Old February 19, 2012, 01:41 PM   #15
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+1 for situational awareness

whatever you do be most careful driving there - because that'll be the most dangerous thing you do that day Enjoy
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Old February 19, 2012, 07:52 PM   #16
Vt.birdhunter
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I drive a limo in NYC. In most areas I cant pull over long enough to relieve myself at a McDonald's without getting ticketed. LE in that prevalent.
Bloomberg has the placed so locked down you get fined for smoking cigarettes on the wrong street.
I travel quite a bit in the Northeast, and honestly; there are few places I would consider safer than NYC these days. Help is constantly and immediately available.
Just trying to offer some piece of mind; odds are they will have a wonderful time.
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Old February 20, 2012, 09:26 AM   #17
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I grew up in Manhattan

Right in the area where they filmed West Side Story, at the time they filmed West Side Story. It has changed a lot - more because of Giuliani than anything Bloomberg ever accomplished. When I was growing up, we were cautioned to carry tribute in case we were mugged - the police were not allowed to use hollow point bullets because they might violate the criminal's right to rehabilitation if they were killed - muggings were treated as misdemeanors for all intents and purposes - to get things treated as a felony, the criminal had to actually draw blood.

That started to change around the time of the movie Death Wish and the Bernard Goetz subway shooting. Then, under Giuliani who succeeded the absolutely ineffective Dinkins, they actually started enforcing all the laws - citations for buildings with broken windows, store owners and building owners not sweeping the sidewalks, aggressive panhandlers actually going to jail, muggers treated as violent criminals instead of street entertainment. NYC became much safer.

I come back to NYC frequently. It's so different from when I was growing up, and it's a good different. I take the subway without fear, I walk around aware of my surroundings but not with the hunched "I'm waiting to be a victim look." That doesn't mean that there is no crime, but the common sense things I've seen written in this thread should go a long way toward keeping people from becoming victims.
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Old February 20, 2012, 07:09 PM   #18
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I've been going to manhattan since I was a child 40+ years ago.
In the last 20 years it has cleaned up substantially.
In the years since 9/11 it has probably become the safest place in America.

I Was there this past fall with a few friends and we walked from 14th street and 5th avenue to 46th street and broadway at 3:00am and I was no more concerned than if I were walking in Montreal.

Parking in midtown can cost upwards of $50.00 a day so taking cabs and buses is recommended.
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Old February 20, 2012, 08:38 PM   #19
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NYC is a fairly safe place today.
It is legal to carry a folding knife w. less than 4" blade. If it can be operated by gravity or centrifugal force (broadly interpreted by NYPD) and the blade locks it might be considered illegal. Non-locking blade seems to be OK no matter how NYPD interprest the law, so something like a Swiss Army knife is legal.
I don't believe NYC law prohibits non-resident to buy pepper spray; it is true that it is not legal to bring into city, but most drugstores sell it. Of course a cane or umbrella is legal. Chances are very slim you will need spray, cane, or umbrella for SD.
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Old February 20, 2012, 08:43 PM   #20
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Situational awareness... but do NOT look at anyone coming down the sidewalk, in the intersection etc. Just walk quickly along the sidewalk looking at the heels of the person ahead of you.

That is the way the TV shows see people walking.
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Old February 22, 2012, 04:26 PM   #21
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The answer is yes. Non-Residents can carry pepper spray into the city, but only under certain conditions. Residents can only buy pepper spray from certain shops which are properly licensed.

- You must not have a felony or been convicted of assault.
- Must be 18 years or over
- Spray must be "pocket sized"

I think no matter where you go you should always carry pepper spray no matter how safe you believe the area might be. I have seen fights happen in the most peaceful places and for the oddest of reasons. I do not let any of my family members out the door without a can of spray in their pocket. You simply never know these days.

Will the NYPD arrest you if you use the pepper spray in an unlawful manner? Yes, they most certainly will. There are times when people believe they are using pepper spray in a lawful manner when they are really using it unlawfully. Pepper spray is not to be used because someone is yelling or annoying you. It is not be used for disagreements. It is only to be used for the "protection of person or property" as the law states below.

These matters can be subjective at times. The story of the other person is usually vastly different and contrary. My advice is not to use it unless you absolutely need to use it. If someone is charging at you with hostile intentions or touching in a manner which is clearly hostile, then you should probably use it. However, if they are standing their ground and just being really annoying/loud then you should take the opportunity to walk away.

Always attempt to walk away. Usually, both parties will stand their ground during an argument and this is where problems occur. Sometimes both parties in a fight will be arrested and charged. Disorderly conduct is always the base charge, but usually assault is pressed on the fighters. If you whip out your pepper spray and use it during a questionable fight, one in which you could have walked away from, then you will be charged with criminal possession of a weapon among other things.

Keep one hand on the pepper spray in your pocket, but only use it when you are in danger. If you use it during the course of a clearly preventable fight which you could have walked away from then you will be going to jail no matter which side started it.

Dont forget, once pepper spray is deployed then run away from the attacker. Do not stick around. The pepper spray will only disorient the attacker for several seconds to several minutes depending upon the individual. If you choose to remain by the attacker then they will probably eventually come at you, but this time they are full of adrenaline and have more strength. They might even have a pistol on them or a knife. Use that crucial time to run. Sometimes folks will decide to stick around and wait for police. They believe that by spraying the attacker again will have some additional effect. Do not think that way. Give them a good spray and run in the opposite direction. Do not delay.

New York: Section 265.25 (14) and (15) The possession of “selfdefense sprays” by persons who are not felons or who have been convicted of an assault, 18 or over for the protection of person or property and its otherwise lawful use is legal. “Selfdefense spray” is defined as “a pocket sized spray device which contains and releases a chemical or organic substance which is intended to produce temporary physical discomfort or disability through being vaporized or otherwise dispensed in the air or any like device containing tear gas, pepper spray or similar disabling agent”. There are certain labeling requirements. Sales require both a seller’s license and the completion by a purchaser of a registration form. New York residents may only purchase defense sprays from licensed Firearms Dealers or licensed Pharmacists in that state. No more than two sprays may be sold at any one time to a single purchaser.
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Old February 22, 2012, 04:31 PM   #22
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Personally, I would buy online from them. I avoid NYC. I know there are cultural things there, but I wont spend my time or money in that freedom hating city. Period.
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Old February 22, 2012, 04:36 PM   #23
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Tell them to stay off the cell phones and be alert.Stay together and don't flash large sums of money.
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