The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 22, 2012, 09:19 AM   #1
rhs77430
Member
 
Join Date: February 21, 2012
Location: warrensburg, mo
Posts: 16
economical AR15 optics?

What kind of glass should i put on an ar15 carbine, I have 500 dollars, not a penny more. If i had the money, i'd go with an acog or an eotech w/ a magnifier, but i don't. I'm looking for something with either 3x or 4x magnification, 'tactical', wide range of view, and preferably illuminated reticle. I was thinking a burris ar-332. Is that a decent option? anyone with experience on it? also, when I get it, I dont want to be able to see the front sight in the lower half of my field of view. can i put the scope mount on a riser, and raise it up past the front sight post?
rhs77430 is offline  
Old February 22, 2012, 10:03 AM   #2
jem375
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2002
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 390
That's easy.... Nikon M-223 1-4x.. works very good on my ar or mini-14
__________________
Life is too short to spend it with an ugly gun.....
NRA Life Member
jem375 is offline  
Old February 22, 2012, 10:32 AM   #3
CTS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2011
Location: NE Georgia
Posts: 1,070
I just received my Lucid HD7 and I think it is going to work out fine. They have a 2x magnifier available but now there is also a 3x and a 2x-5x magnifier for it. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...red-dot-sight/

http://www.mylucidgear.com/news.php
CTS is offline  
Old February 22, 2012, 10:45 AM   #4
Crow Hunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2012
Posts: 1,078
Quote:
What kind of glass should i put on an ar15 carbine, I have 500 dollars, not a penny more. If i had the money, i'd go with an acog or an eotech w/ a magnifier, but i don't. I'm looking for something with either 3x or 4x magnification, 'tactical', wide range of view, and preferably illuminated reticle. I was thinking a burris ar-332. Is that a decent option? anyone with experience on it? also, when I get it, I dont want to be able to see the front sight in the lower half of my field of view. can i put the scope mount on a riser, and raise it up past the front sight post?
What are you planning on using it for (target type and range to targets)?

Why do you feel you need magnification?

You won't be able to raise it above the FSB and still make it usable without adding a cheek piece and then having to deal with the increased height over bore and all that compensation.

If you have a powerful enough magnification on the optic, the focal point will be beyond the front sight base and you will only see a vague shadow if that. It is up beyond 6X in my experience though. Some people can deal with it, I can except during midday direct sunlight.

In my experience, magnification is a hinderance rather than a help on a "fighting" carbine or something that you are trying to use in a "fast moving" scenario. Target shooting/hunting small things at a distance it is useful.

Define your use before you buy an optic that might not suit your purposes.

FWIW I don't use magnification on my AR that I use for "home defense" and coyote shooting.
Crow Hunter is offline  
Old February 22, 2012, 11:10 AM   #5
plouffedaddy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2011
Location: Carolina
Posts: 3,279



Put me down for either the Lucid or Vortex. Both are great and offer magnifiers. I did a full Lucid write up on my website here:

http://gunreviewguy.blogspot.com/201...dot-optic.html
__________________
Mrgunsngear's Youtube Channel
Certified Glock Armorer
plouffedaddy is offline  
Old February 22, 2012, 11:34 AM   #6
rhs77430
Member
 
Join Date: February 21, 2012
Location: warrensburg, mo
Posts: 16
thanks for the input. I think that vortex looks great, and the lucid. I want to magnify because I like shooting at ranges from a bench, like 100 to 150 yards. the ability to mount or take off a 3x magnifier might be perfect. anybody with a pic of the vortex in front of a magnifier?
rhs77430 is offline  
Old February 22, 2012, 12:55 PM   #7
HJ857
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 9, 2007
Location: haslett, mi
Posts: 360
I have a Vortex SPARC and it comes with a screw in 2x magnifier, but I think it's real close to useless. I don't have any other experience with Vortex magnifiers.

I'll second the recommendation for a 1-4x scope though. I use a Burris but I really like the looks for the new Nikons and excellent prices too. If you don't need the 1x option, then there's a whole world of 2 or 3x to whatever scopes in your price range. The M223 Nikon looks great but the new P223 models look even better.
HJ857 is offline  
Old February 22, 2012, 01:01 PM   #8
pturner67
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2006
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 673
or.....

get the vortec sparc for the 100 yard battle...and get the leupold 3-9x mark ar in a few months for the 100+ yard battle

you'll end up buying more anyway...so I figured I would throw that out there

I have both the sparc and mark ar...and they are awesome
pturner67 is offline  
Old February 22, 2012, 02:28 PM   #9
chris in va
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2004
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 12,649
Good grief, $500 is economical? I can't justify anything more than $100 for a range plinker.
chris in va is offline  
Old February 22, 2012, 02:31 PM   #10
rhs77430
Member
 
Join Date: February 21, 2012
Location: warrensburg, mo
Posts: 16
it's not just a range plinker. it's also my shtf gun if it comes to that. it's my only semiauto centerfire rifle, except a kel tec, and it's my go-to shtf gun, so i'm willing to spend 500 on a good optic.
rhs77430 is offline  
Old February 22, 2012, 02:32 PM   #11
rhs77430
Member
 
Join Date: February 21, 2012
Location: warrensburg, mo
Posts: 16
anyone think this could be a good option?
rhs77430 is offline  
Old February 22, 2012, 02:34 PM   #12
btmj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 1, 2011
Location: Near St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 804
Nikon M-223 in 1-4X gets my vote... including the M-223 one piece picatinny mount, the whole package is about $350, give or take.

In the 1X setting, the scope is a true "both eyes open" 1X sight. I find it just as fast as a red dot. The reticle is a heavy cross hair with a center dot, very fast and very visible in low light.

In dim light, the light gathering properties at 1X are superior to a normal red dot sight. When used at the 1.5X or 2X setting, you can really see into the shadows.

I actually got the Nikon Monarch African version. The only difference is the reticle is a #4 German style, and the adjustments are 1/2 MOA instead of 1/4 MOA.
btmj is offline  
Old February 22, 2012, 02:35 PM   #13
Noreaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 30, 2011
Location: New England
Posts: 1,372
Check out the Sig Store. Sig makes a nice 3x optic for AR15s with an illuminated rect and BDC for under $200.00. CP1 prismatic scope.
Noreaster is offline  
Old February 22, 2012, 02:44 PM   #14
Rattlehead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 198
M-223.
Rattlehead is offline  
Old February 22, 2012, 03:43 PM   #15
Marquezj16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2011
Posts: 2,088
I use to want an Aimpoint M2/M4 but could not justify paying the $$$ for one. Then came along the Aimpoint PRO and I was liking the price. While I was waiting for my accesories funds to go up. I picked up a Vortex Strikefire. It's accurate enough to 100 - not MOA and I did not even try the magnifier that came with it. I also have the Sig CP1 Prismatic scope. It seems like a nice scope but the reticle is busy and small. You can barely make it out without illuminating it in red or green.

All of the scopes I mentioned can do the job of what they were intended for, but I wanted more.

So now I am looking waiting to get the Nikon M223 in 1-4X with Point Blank Reticle. You can use it like a red dot at 1x and maybe even 2x and turn up the magnification to shoot past 100 yards. My buddy owns one on top of his RRA and it was so nice and clear. It's almost like cheating.
Marquezj16 is offline  
Old February 22, 2012, 03:44 PM   #16
Crow Hunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2012
Posts: 1,078
If this is for a "duty grade" rifle.

Don't skimp on optics.

Aimpoint or Eotech.

The advantage of the red dot type optics are they allow for shooting from nonconventional positions with unlimited eye relief/miniscule parallax.

I think you can get an Aimpoint PRO (Patrol Rifle Optic) for around $500 or less if you shop around.

If this is for self defense, you don't "need" magnification, IMHO.

I have owned/used ACOG, Trijicon TR24 1X4 and Aimpoint with a 3x magnifier.

I only use a plain Aimpoint now.
Crow Hunter is offline  
Old February 22, 2012, 04:18 PM   #17
Mobuck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Posts: 2,389
I've used several AimPoints with excellent results. Currently have a 2X in use and like it a lot. Makes target ID easier and defines the aiming point better for us old guys w/o losing the wide field of view.
That said, my most often used AR is mounted with a 1.5-4.5 variable scope. If you're used to aiming with the scope, I don't see much problem using a 1.5X in close range situations. If it's too close for that, just look along side the barrel and rip a few off.
Mobuck is offline  
Old February 22, 2012, 04:22 PM   #18
NWPilgrim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 29, 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,153
I have several optics on my ARs:
- Aimpoint red dot
- Weaver 1-3x
- Zeiss 3-9x

I got the Weaver first as a general purpose optic and it was cheap at $150 or so. Works well at the range out to 200 yards for plinking. But the eye relief like any magnified optic is too limited (I felt) for self defense. And it is not enough magnification for sighting in handload tests. Much better than iron sights for my eyes but a compromise.

When I had more money saved I got two optics more specialized for different purposes. The Aimpoint is fantastic in terms of unlimited eye relief, rough eye position, and illuminated dot for quick target engagement out to at least 100 yds. The battery life is in terms of years. This is now my general purpose SD and plinker.

The Zeiss 3-9x is perfect for getting the utmost precision at 100 yd sight in targets, while still being able to double as a plinker or field gun at the lower magnifications.

I would plan to eventually get two optics: a Red dot for under 200 yd for defense, plinking, larger critters. And a variable up to 7x or more for precision work past 100 yds for targets, small varmints, etc.

Just figure out what you will use it for MOST and get that optic first. Sounds like SHTF might be a concern so the Aimpoint or EOTech would be better choice to start with. If you find the need for longer ranges later on then you can get another optic for that when you have the funds. I don't think you can ONE optic that does everything well and is battle hard proven for under $500. Don't scrimp on a defense optic and try to get a bunch of cheaper gadgetry to cobble together a compromise. Focus on the primary need and get the best you can afford for that purpose.

Even within the magnified variable scopes you need to decide your purposes in order to get the best suited reticle: heavy, thin, turret BDC or reticle ranging dots, illuminated or not, etc. Only get features you know you need and how they are better than other options. The last thing you want is an optic that you spend too much time trying to figure out for simple everyday use.
__________________
"The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition."
- James Madison
NWPilgrim is offline  
Old February 22, 2012, 04:48 PM   #19
Crow Hunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2012
Posts: 1,078
Excellent Post!
Crow Hunter is offline  
Old February 22, 2012, 05:14 PM   #20
Live Free
Member
 
Join Date: February 10, 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 71
don't skimp on optics for a weapon you depend on to save your life

Crow Hunter is offering sage advise. You will not go wrong with either Aimpoint or EOTech.

You mention your absolute top $$. You may be better served sticking with iron sights and learning to shoot that way until you can spend the $$ to get a higher quality optic.

I recently purchased a NIB EOTech XPS3-0 for less that your budget. The mount comes with, no additional purchase like Aimpoint. The item was listed on Te X as Gun Tr@der by a reputable company. After my purchase, they promptly listed the item sold and are not offering at that price anymore, but they are offering at a price that is only a few $$ more than your budget.

Don't make a purchase decision for a duty weapon based on how cool the optic looks. If the weapon is just a plinker and you want to look good shooting it at the range, then by all means do that. Be Honest with Yourself about your needs.

I consider home defense to require duty grade. YMMV.

Good luck and God Bless.
__________________
-Be Free
Live Free is offline  
Old February 23, 2012, 07:29 AM   #21
lmccrock
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 23, 2007
Location: Red Rock. TX
Posts: 801
Vortex Viper or Burris Tac30 are in your price range. Both survive 3gun matches, so they are reasonably durable.

As for mount, you will need to raise the scope some to clear the front sight post so your cheek will need to be up a little.

The Vortex package you posted appears to be the magnifier and mount, not the actual scope. The Vortex Strikefire in the photo is another $170 or so. But it fits your needs.
lmccrock is offline  
Old February 23, 2012, 07:36 AM   #22
Bigbuckeye
Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2012
Posts: 41
$500 to me is a sizable amount of cash....I wouldn't blow it on cheap optics.

I would forget about magnification and go with an Aimpoint. I found one new a few months back, a Comp ML3 for $450....
Bigbuckeye is offline  
Old February 23, 2012, 07:45 AM   #23
UtopiaTexasG19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 3, 2011
Location: S.E. Texas Gulf Coast
Posts: 743
On my AR I have a 3x9 Nikon Monarch with quick release base and flip up iron sights. The best of both worlds for my taste.
UtopiaTexasG19 is offline  
Old February 23, 2012, 08:14 AM   #24
frigate88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2011
Location: LOXAHATCHEE, FL
Posts: 204
Shop around. I picked up my EOTECH L3 for $300. I bought it used off a guy,but in brand new condition, and hasn't let me down yet. It's also mounted on my .50 AR so it takes a beatin every time the trigger is pulled.
__________________
"We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for thier own actions."
****BLEED BLUE, 10-8****
frigate88 is offline  
Old February 23, 2012, 08:38 AM   #25
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,559
I would also recommend the M223 scope and mount. I have 3 nikon scopes and they are tough as nails, dont lose zero and just work.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Reply

Tags
acog , ar15 , economical , optics , red dot

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13956 seconds with 7 queries