Wax slugs?

[bamaranger]

I see the novelty here, creating a "new" type of projectiole for your shotgun out of common shotshells. But I can't think of a single use for wax slugs (or the guys other specialty, "cut shells") that a conventional slug would do even better.

I suppose if one was breeching doors, a semi-solid/frangible load would have its uses. I suppose if one wanted to take on game larger than "small game", only had a shotgun, and NO access to slugs, it would be an improvement over a load of #6's. As neither is the case........novelty only.

[zippy13]

But I can't think of a single use for wax slugs (or the guys other specialty, "cut shells") that a conventional slug would do even better.

I've mentioned previously: I first saw cut shells demonstrated buy a Thai exchange student some years ago. If I understood him correctly, the "slugs" were commonly used in Thailand because standard slugs were prohibited. The government would allow civilians ammo only for target work, birds and small game. They didn't want antipersonnel ammo in the hands of civilians. If you wanted to go after pigs, you had few options other than cut shells.

[PoorRichRichard]

+1^ Zippy- I think that's the point of the dude who's video I posted earlier in this thread. Last resort if nothing else is at hand... And also fun as s#!t for folks low on ca$h like me

[zippy13]

I also recall the young cut shell shooter spending an afternoon in the clubhouse trying to get the remnants of a hull out of his barrel. With cut new shells, the shot, wad and partial hull stayed together and cleared the muzzle in one piece. With reloads it was a different story, the hull didn't make the full trip and had welded itself to the barrel in the choke area -- it made a first rate mess. I suspect it's because the crimp is more durable with factory shells than reloads.

If you want to try cut reloads, it might be wise to super-glue your crimps. But, that's just a guess -- I haven't experimented with cut loads in my guns and don't expect to. At PoorRichRichard's suggestion, I might try cutting if stranded on an island.

[TheKlawMan]

Computer tower- The metal box that houses old PC computers. Usually about 24" tall by 10" wide, and about 18" to 24" deep. Super fun to shoot at with slugs/centerfire rifle rounds.

Ah. I thought you meant a transmitter tower. Yes I have built a few tower PC's, including the one I am using.

[johnwilliamson062]

Might whip up a few of these.
Not for regular use, but I can see how it could be useful info in some locales and in some situations. I have tons of birdshot on hand, but very little in the way of slugs or buck shot. MOre than a mag tube, but nothing like sporting loads. Converted nitro phesant rounds would really be good...

[johnwilliamson062]

It looked to me like he was not crimping the shell after cutting it. Am i wrong?

[zippy13]

It looked to me like he was not crimping the shell after cutting it. Am i wrong?

With wax slugs, the crimp is removed, and with cut new shells the crimp isn't disturbed. You don't want the crimp to open with cut shells, else the hull may stick in the barrel. That's why I suggested super-glue on the crimp if you're going to try cutting reloads.

Warning: Imagine what can happen if you get a stuck hull and shoot another round before removing the barrel obstacle!

[johnwilliamson062]

Ahh, I see. Did not understand there were two types. Very interesting. The cuts would be very field expedient. I think they should be called JICGD slugs. Pronounced jigged slugs.

I would not shoot game with these outside a survival situation.

[PoorRichRichard]

With wax slugs, the crimp is removed, and with cut new shells the crimp isn't disturbed. You don't want the crimp to open with cut shells, else the hull may stick in the barrel. That's why I suggested super-glue on the crimp if you're going to try cutting reloads.

Also, if you go the wax slug route you need to make sure the wad full of the new wax and shot does not fall out of the shell. After you cut off the crimp and remove the shot, you can pull out the wad and put a bit of super glue on the outside before reinserting into the shell.

Ideally when you cut off the crimp, the shell is still a bit higher than the wad, and will thus be sealed by the wax, but if not, the glue is a quick fix.

[TheKlawMan]

I found that video entertaining and I guess it would be useful if you were in a situation with limited access to lead and molds. Dave, the guy points out in the video that they aren't that accurate. Why he tells you that you should use a dutch oven and then uses a regular pan I am guessing is that in some situations you may not have a dutch oven.

[zippy13]

Why he tells you that you should use a dutch oven and then uses a regular pan I am guessing is that in some situations you may not have a dutch oven.

I think he used a dangerous misnomer. When melting wax you want to use a double boiler to avoid over heating the wax and starting a fire. A dutch oven is a heavy pot with a lot of thermal mass. If your wax starts to burn in one of those, it's not going to be easy to cool it down.
What he was trying to say: use a double boiler with wax; but, since he was watching his wax very carefully, he was using a conventional pan. When I mess with wax (mixing old school lube for black powder shooting) I do it in an oven at less than 200-degrees. A double boiler won't exceed the water's boiling point.

[TheKlawMan]

Actually it was my mistake. He twice said "double boiler"; not "Dutch oven". so much for my mastery of the culinary skills.

[rjsixgun]

I've been makeing waxed shot for years, I originally heard about it from an farmer, a real old timer. I thought it was a joke till I shot one! I use them as cheap slugs and practice ammo. never had any problems with them. I've also used the lee slug and lee .69 round ball in factory loaded shot shells, all worked fine.

[Gunplummer]

If weird is what we are after, I remember reading about a guy that cast his buckshot with wire through it. It was supposed to reduce the shot spread.

[shortwave]

I remember reading about a guy that cast his buckshot with wire through it.

^^^google: 'bolo shotgun rd.'

Not wax but this thread got me thinking about making rubber/silicon slugs in the same fashion. Was out in the garage the other night and saw a tube of 'Odd Job'.
It's a rubber/silicon in a tube that sets up but is still soft(like rubber). It's used as a gasket maker.

Might be fun to play with.

[johnwilliamson062]

THe only purpose I know of for rubber slugs is less lethal ammo. If you have shot in it the mass will increase to the point where it may be very lethal.

[zippy13]

THe only purpose I know of for rubber slugs is less lethal ammo.

There's another active tread, on this forum, where rubber slugs are recommended to help persuade bears to go away.

[Creek Henry]

Wax slugs should be highly frangible and that makes them desireable for indoor use. They might even be more lethal on deer. There are some vids on youtube about them worth a look.

[Gunplummer]

I never liked picking BB's out of pheasants and rabbits, why would you want to with deer meat?

[johnwilliamson062]

to help persuade bears to go away

ANd why are they used for this purpose? Because they are less lethal to the bear. You add all that lead in and you have a much different slug than a silicone/rubber only slug. My guess is 3-4 times the mass. If the wax ones are being used to hunt deer I bet a silicone one would at least penetrate the hide on a bear.

[hylysly]

These wax slugs are obviously not a new idea, but the technology we have to look at them is. This is a short video with a *higher* speed camera, and the poster has related vids about wax slugs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InbyF...feature=relmfu

But more importantly, the poster touches on the physics of this idea... which is the ENERGY DISPERSION!

They say that you need to know what is BEHIND your target because of bullet penetration. They also say that every bullet has a lawyers name on it. If you shoot an intruder in your house and the bullet passes through him and hits someone else...you are liable for the damage to BOTH people. It may be a justified shooting on the count of the intruder, but then you get the manslaughter charge for the person in the background...

Isn't this the theory behind HD ammo??? You want to first stop the bad guy, but then STOP THE BULLET BEFORE IT DOES MORE DAMAGE.

So back to the energy and the physics... The wax slug with the #8 shot stays together until impact. The energy from the charge propels it forward with a calculable force (F=MA) UNTIL SOMETHING ELSE ACTS ON IT TO CHANGE ITS FORCE and TRAJECTORY. That *something else* is whatever it hits.

The thing is, at impact, there is no longer a chamber directing all that force in the forward direction, so the slug collapses on itself and all the shot caroms off itself in all directions. The wax is a moot point at this point. The energy is dispersed in all directions and dissipates rapidly. The result is massive expansion without through and through penetration, stopping the round before it hits something else.

I'd love to see thorough tests on this theory. Hell, I'd do it myself if I had the facilities. But if it holds, then wouldn't this be a better HD choice? A round that has a devastating effect on target and little to no collateral damage??? Stop an intruder quickly while minimizing the risk to innocent bystanders.

This further begs the question of "reloads" for HD... Here is a potentially amazing concept that is not sold commercially, thus requiring the shooter-manufactured reload that is so frowned upon by LEOs for HD.

Does anyone have any thoughts on wax loads from this angle...???

Most of what I've read here and elsewhere is people concerned with how to make a CHEAP round that acts like a SLUG. It is apparent that the wax rounds accomplish that sacrificing a little accuracy at range, but little else. I'm interested in delving further into what it does AFTER impact.

[xzqzq]

I gotta try this business with the wax slugs.... Looks similar to candle making...also would not mind making some outta wax only, for non-lethal loads...

[zippy13]

Xzqzq, don't assume an all-wax slug would be non-lethal. Less-lethal, perhaps; but, not non-lethal.

[Dave P]

"don't assume an all-wax slug would be non-lethal"

Agree!

The paraffin I used is very hard stuff. I am sure it could kill, easily.